"And where they want them is often at a high school outside their home boundary, so their kid can play for the best team and the best coach"

Play for the best team (not so much) play for the best coach (ABSOLUTELY)

I would have sold my house and moved if I needed to do that. Our "home" High school is a disaster. Too many meddling parents, too weak/stupid of an Administration, Horrible coaches with tiny budgets.

Hmmmm, I wonder why my kids go elsewhere, and do GREAT........

I was not required to marry someone from my OLD High school. I wasn't required to live in my old neighborhood. I am not required to work within 5 miles of my house.

and YET some people want to FORCE me to send my kid to an inferior school.

No thanks, I will go open enrollment just LIKE THE LAW SAYS.

YEah, these parents are soooo awful.. Sacrificing money, time, and energy to try and provide the best opportunity for their children.

Don't fool yourself. Going to a superior program has immense benefits for creating the best opportunity to succeed at your sport. Not only does this provide a better chance to receive a FREE college education, but it also allows some students to get into some schools that they couldn't dream of (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, ect).

My family has grown up in Timpview's boundaries. But if we didn't and my son wanted to play football at the next level, I would do whatever I had to to get him into that program.

College level coaches, great facilities, competition daily in practice, and college coaches from the likes of USC, Notre Dame, BYU, Stanford who contact the coaches daily or visit the school annually. Not to say, you won't be "discovered" elsewhere, but your chances of succeeding are much, much better at some programs.

Does this policy hurt high school athletics on a whole? Absolutely. But given the choice between bettering my child's future or bettering the state of Utah high school athletics, I'm gong to choose my son every time.

Hallelujah!! The other side of the coin is the schools, coaches, or band teachers must do a better job to keep "customer" (parents and kids) from seeking a better situation. Why is it so bad that Timpview is good in football and Provo is good at Basketball? Why is it wrong if Hillcrest does a better job in drill? We've become a nation of penalizing the successful, instead of striving to be great. We want everyone to be average, its easier and we'll all feel better. But, history teaches us that this way doesn't work (see Soviet Union). When you try to legislate competition, you make a mockery of the very word itself. I'm all for throwing the book at coaches that truly recruit, there's no place for cheaters. But schools should be trying to figure out how to keep "customers", and the first step is to look up.

WOW Sounds like you fit right in with the meddling parents. Read your comment a couple of times and it says it all Parents trying to live through their children!! Who talks like that about any school,coach, administration all I can say is WOW get a life. And yes I know what I am talking about I have had three 3 sport athletics all that have had different experiences some great some not so great. Remember it's all about the learning and the journey.

The following posts are exhibit A of why Exell is right. Parents do not have a clue, build your program better and if your kid is good the university program will find you, timpview does not build D1 athletes any better than any other program, it takes the D1 athletes from every other program. Keep at it parents and all High school sports will become club teams and little Johny will not get to play unless you have serious money.

Play where you live. Come on parents, how many of your kids are really getting a college scholarship to play sports? What about the kids that live in the school boundary that are displaced by your actions? Who are you fooling ... super sized programs dont make players better ... equal competition does. Clobering someone 50 to zip in football does not stretch someones ability on the powerhouse team. Who are you fooling. Sounds like each of you have some unresolved "issues" growing up or some insecurity that needs to be fulfilled through your kids. Shame on you.

First off, Timpview's facilities suck, come to Texas and see why.
Secondly, regulating compition would be good for Utah atheletics. In Texas UIL heavily regulates/restricts HS sports which has created much more parity and more competitive leagues, thus making it the best state for HS sports, esp. football.
Lastly, by UIL regulating the public schools and banned recruiting, public schools won't play private schools and unlike other states the private schools can't recruit and become powerhouse monopolies like you see in Louisiana, California and Florida.

Schools should be trying to help kids prepare for college, the work force, or some trade. Because everyone pays STATE taxes, everyone should be able to take advantage of a STATE school system. Why should a kid who excels in mathmatics have to go to an inferior mathmatics program because of where he lives? How about a kid that excels in music, or science, or is mentally handicaped, or (gasp) sports?

Regardless of the kids talents or needs. He should be able to attend a program that best assists him/her in those goals. They should not have to put themselves at a disadvantage because of where they want or can afford to live.

It sounds like the parents that need to but out are the ones that are worried that there local team will not be competitive, or that a dynasty may develop. Who cares?

Parents need to see the bigger picture. Quit worrying about the success of your local program, and start worrying about the success of the child.

In my city property taxes support our school district. When you send a child to a school out of your district who is paying????????

It is amazing to read these posts -- they verify what Evan Excell said right to the last letter!!
Come on parents -- let your kids have time to be kids!!!!!!!

I won't hide behind anonymous. Evan isn't saying all parents are bad. Just the ones that teach their children that it is ok to break rules in order to get one's way. Play where you live.
If you wan't your kid to play at a Timpview, Provo, Cottonwood etc, move into their boundaries. What cracks me up is, when that happens and then parents find out their kid isn't good enough to be a starter there. Or even better a new kid "moves" in and takes playing time away from that kid. The parents throw a fit and go school shopping again.

If a kid is truly a D1 prospect colleges will find them. Give your local coach a chance to build something. A chance is also more than a year or two. If you don't like the way they coach become a coach yourself. It is real easy to coach from the stands. Put the same time in the same job that a coach does. Then maybe you can judge them or their program.
Let kids be kids. Teach them to follow the rules, not find the loop holes.

If you notice alot of comp. leagues don't require rosters for their teams participating in their leagues take for instance RMSB a baseball league they don't have rosters so any kid can play on any team and in tournaments you find kids that were playing with their community team playing with a team which most people call a "stacked team" and the next tournament they are playing on a different team that is "stacked" just a pure example of kids moving from team to team so they can be on the best team out there! I am sure there are other programs that do the same thing by not having rosters but i am positive that if this was a rule for all leagues and was enforced this would resolve not all but some of the moving around kids do by the time they make it into HS and maybe it just might make a team finally be a team!

So how funny is it? "the best COACH (absolutely)" Sounds like Johnny's dad didn't shine while at his local high school. I agree though, I mean De La Salle High School has a great program. So I think I will enroll my kid in California. Because it is all for Johnny right? to "his quote says it all" read through your post again and tell me that is normal? As has been mentioned throughout the posts. If your kid is good enough to play D1 sports, guess what? The recruiters will find them. But I agree with all these other idiots , maybe I will waste my life and my kids by running them all over the state to go to school. I mean that makes sense doesn't it? Then I will whine about how much money, time and energy I spend trying to live my failed dreams through my kids lives. Keep up the good work and I look forward to hearing about how all your summer softball leagues are doing you super parents!!!

There are a lot of problems with high school sports. It is no longer for the enjoyment of kids competing. Everybody seems to enjoy bragging rights instead of the fun of sports.
I say let's bring fun back into sports or just drop them from high school altogether.

My brother's a football coach and the parents can really make his job miserable! He loves the kids and understands that football is just a really great game and most likely not their ticket to a college education or the NFL. In his district you have to maintain a C average in order to play, but last year he instituted a "house" rule that you could not have any grade lower than a C if you wanted to play. That meant benching anyone, including starters, if they have a "D or F" in any class. He opened the weight room for tutoring sessions and picked up players before school to attend those sessions. (He's great at math and science.) Some parents went ballistic, but the principal loves him. He realizes that getting good grades and knowing how to study are way more important than a football game. He knows -- he played on two state championship football teams in high school as a starter, graduated with honors, and played college ball as a walk-on.

I have been a successful coach throughout my career (15 years). I have coached all americans and I have coached kids who can't walk and chew gum. The one thing I have learned through all the years is that coaching makes little difference. It is the hard work of the athlete that makes a difference. Almost all coaches know the ins and outs of a particular sport but they cannot demonstrate it if they don't have the athletes. Coaches can make some difference but saying your kid is going to a school for the coaching is just fooling yourself.

To: Schools should help not penalize, I agree with you that if a child is talented at math, he/she should be able to go to the best program in the state. If he/she excels at science or english, they should be able to go to the best program for those subjects. The only problem with this is it is being used for another loop hole. Parents justify sending their kids to another school for sports by saying their kid needs to be in the best program for math or science or whatever subject the school they want their child to attend is remotely good at, (In this case it doesn't even have to be the best in the state). If you think the program in your area stinks, do something about it. Don't just change schools. That's the weak way out.

As a long time high school coach Evan Excell's comments are right on the money. Thanks for your years of service Evan and may your successor be as good of a man/parent/administrator that you have been.

Evan Excell has been at this awhile and he has seen the changes that have occured at all levels of high school athletics. Please listen to him parents, he is an honorable and caring man and the simple fact is that the percentage of D-1 athletes to overall students in college is minuscule. The truth is that 99% of athletes aren't D-1 material and that is what makes coaching great. Kids who play for the love of the game and competition are everything. We coaches who continue to coach for our love of helping student athletes excell in all aspects of life will keep doing so until we are pushed out by your ilk. When we are gone you will have to put up or shut up.

I totally agree with this article. Parents are teaching their kids that if you are not 100% satisfied with where you are....just cop out. This is a detrimental lesson to teach the youth. With such unresponsible adults, it is no wonder we are losing our youth. Why not teach your kid to blossom where they are planted? SUCK IT UP!! Or maybe you think your kid deserves the best coach in the state, but the thousands of other kids don't because your son IS the golden child.....sick and wrong!

I think a whopping 18 football players from Utah got Division I scholarships last year. Less than that in basketball...that should tell you something...sending your kid to Timpview doesn't guartantee anything...he better be able to play ball (I mean really play ball!)...

Thy name is "his quote says it all" and "Anonymous". You are the types that is the whole problem.

I loved growing up in my neighborhood. Growing up in one place was fantastic. I used to think it would be cool to move to California and be the new kid on the block, but I'm so greatful my parents never moved. If my parents wanted to move I would've been sick. I feel for the kids that go through all the crap SOME of the parents are doing. Please parents seriously think about the bigger picture with your kids. It's NOT being or showing weakness, give your kids a sense of some permanancy. It will come back to you in ways you'd never have known otherwise.

Playing for a coach who knows the game and has discipline in his program, does make a difference. Parents do have the rights to make sure their kids play where they can succeed, play were you live is not the answer.. I have also been a high school coach for 20 years, don't be fooled when people or coaches tell you that every program is the same, its not true.. Parents should have the right to do what is best for their individual kid.

I'm "the problem" for citing the stark reality that very few players, despite all the efforts of their parents to move them to School X, get divorces (as they say in Sports Illustrated, a true Sign of the Apocalypse) to obtain legal residecne, etc. will play Division I college athletics...

Not everyone has the opportunity to "school shop". We live in a rural area (by choice because of environment and career). We can't just put our athlete in a different school because of its supposed superior athletic program. We wouldn't anyway. We live in our community. Our children play for our community. WITH PRIDE. We work with the talent that we have. The coach may be great, or not. The program may be great, or not. The community may support it, or not. I don't think it's such a great idea for mommies and daddies to shove their precious Johhny's down everyone's throat by hopping schools. If the kid is talented enough to play past high school then great. If the kid can't cut it, maybe parents should back off and stop trying to relive their own spent youth through their kid. Let the kid be a kid and enjoy life. We have had some pretty successful programs come from our 3A school and some very successful kids too. Coach Excell is great. He coached here at our high school many years ago. We appreciated him then and we apprciate him now.

There's a simple solution. If a kid moves during his high school years to a different in state school, he loses a year of eligibility. No exceptions.

Why do parents spends thousands of dollars from a very young age for their child to be good at gymnastics, piano etc.
The Answer: Because they are paying a professional to teach their child because they know it is a MUST if their child is ever going to master the skill.

Wyh parents do you let your child get coached in football, baseball etc. by the local construction worker, mechanic, real estate agent etc. all the way through their developmental years and then in high school expect them to be masters of thier skill?

If you want your child to be an elite athlete then he/she needs to be trained by an elite coach for many years or you'd better have one of those special kids who are just blessed with a ridiculuos amount of natural talent.

So until you invest the same amount of money and time on your athlete as you do you pianist then except the facts.

Also, thier is a reason the NFL holds combines for college players. It's because they care about skill level not win/loss records of thier prior teams.

Talent gets you to the next level not high school trophies!

I am a coach at a smaller school, and a parent of a 11 year old. I am beginning to see that sports are beginning to take over our lives. He goes from one sport to another without a break in between. We are overloading these kids. They want to play, but they also want to be kids. Our highschool athletes are the same. Being a smaller school many of the athletes are multiple sport players. They get maybe 2 weeks in the summer off, in between all the camps, clubs, and season play. Give them a break.

I agree with the comment from Texas. The UIL is very strict about competition. Texas has proven that they have great athletes, even some that are not on the state championship. They also have amazing balance in band.

Utah needs to eliminate this "open school" policy and govern recruiting like the UIL. It makes things fair, balanced, and extremely competitive. The first few comments are exhibit A and B why parents need to chill. Enjoy the moment. If you are so wound up how are you ever going to enjoy your kid.

What happened to playing sports for fun? Sometimes I wonder if people really understand what that means any more. Parents, and their children, now understand fun to be winning. You have a lot of fun if you thump the other team in football, or cream the other team playing baseball.

I wish people would just relax and get on with life. Who knows, maybe if your all-star kid stayed at his home school and worked hard he could help the team get better. Shot in the dark, I know, but maybe. He or she probably won't get a scholarship any way. Just have fun for a change. The funnest teams to watch are the teams that are having fun.

Great article & great comments-I wished we could find an alternative so we would not have an issue of play where you live. It is too bad that parents can't live by the rules instead of looking for loopholes. The summer clubs are getting out of hand. What ever happened to kids working in the summer-maybe if more kids had to work to earn their money so they could become involved we wouldn't have this problem. Being a parent of a junior high student I can see that she needs to be involved in summer clubs in order to make the teams-I wished some type of moratorium would be put in place. I have had to enstill my own moratorium. I have spent numerous hours working with her alone. I have found my best option in getting her a D1 scholarship is to focus on academics, although she is an exceptional athlete, I think that academics will get her farther than athletics-I'm letting her be a kid! By the way tahnk you Evan for your time & effort. I see you at state tournaments and you still have the shine in your eyes.

I was scouting a game this year and couldn't help but notice a players dad who couldn't sit still. I also over heard him talk about the coach and critisize the coach everytime the coach did something. The father's son was a really good player, but I could see that the dad's reactions had an effect aon his sons ' attitude. All he was worried about was that his son scored a lot and that his son touched the ball.

That's why (as much as I hate to say it) I think what Lone Peak has done, ecspecially this year is what it's about. Team Team Team First!!!

That's what will make our future generations Rock!

To DR: Either you are not what you say, or you haven't learned a thing in twenty years of coaching. I don't think anyone is saying that every program is the same. What is being said is that integrity and loyalty to community is worth a lot more than some dusty trophy that resides in a different community than your own. I can't believe a coach would say it is alright to break the rules that are on the books, just so they can build an all-star team. It doesn't take a whole lot of coaching to accomplish the feat of building a tarnished program - just being a good salesman.

Our local high school has a pair of banners hanging from the rafters, the basketball coach/AD moved on and coaches at the local college now. There are a couple of things that have bothered me watching this process unfold;

*watching him walk parents and kids around the building, a real "dog&pony" show for potential players, never an average transfer. His explanation that a "good program recruits itself" and I am not out looking for these kids, their parents are looking for me and what I can do for them.

*Seeing the "all-county" roster of both his championship teams. Neither team once started 5 players that currently lived inside of our boundary.

*talking with the parent's of kids that should have made the team and contributed if it were limited to in-boundary players that were a part of the program for 4 years.

*listening to how he is revered in the community for winning by those with blinders on to the sacrifices others had to make for him to win.

Are two banners worth it?

He's not winning so many games at the college right now. Maybe the high school can get him back. I hope not.

I find it amusing that so many people get upset about high school athletes moving from one school to another; are you afraid they might win a trophy that you do not even profess to care about? Let the athlete seek out the opportunity and find the strategic fit for the athlete's needs... why is this such a big deal? We don't lose sleep over a musician seeking out a better opportunity at a performing arts school, do we? What about those Catholic parents who choose to send their children to a Catholic private school? Can you not argue that those parents are just as meddlesome as those who are driven by other criteria and values? So one school may become a "dynasty" in football or soccer... so what? Let the freakishly competitive seek out the freakishly competitive programs. Stick with the play where you live rule, let those who choose to move go ahead and move (quit wasting time with the ridiculous witch hunts), and lets spend our time and money on something other than worrying about who is going to win State next year. Good grief!

Although I agree that open enrollment has partially destroyed HS athletics, I also don't think parents that transfer their children to "better" programs should be so severely criticized in these blogs.

I imagine some parents aren't "living through their children" but just trying to provide the best opportunity for them.

Also for those talking about the need to stress academics over athletics, lamenting how out of control some parents priorities are, you need to realize that athletics can open many doors academically that you couldn't even dream of if you were a regular student.

My family has 3 members who played athletics in Ivy League schools (Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth). All 3 of us stood ZERO chance of getting in even if we aced our SAT, scored 4.0's and took all AP classes. In this day and age the competitive schools require much much more than good grades and athletics like drama, band, debate could be the tipping factor of landing a spot.

So again, lay off of some of these parents. I agree that some probably go way over the limit, but I also imagine that many are just trying to do the best for their children.

I played high school basketball freshmen through junior year. I started on the varsity team my junior year and we took second in the state playoffs. I decided not to play my senior year because I wasn't having fun. I was so burnt out of basketball after all the spring and summer camps. It was my life. Instead, I played Jr. Jazz my senior year and my dad coached our team. We pulled off a miracle comeback in the championship game with me and another good player on the bench fouled out. I would take that jr jazz championship game over the second place finish in state the year before any day. My dad can't coach basketball, he just wanted us to do what we wanted to do, but all of us kids just wanted to play for fun and we did. That year of lowly jr jazz ball did me more good than playing with the best players in the state on my own high school team (two are playing D1 ball) and in my region. To you parents who think that playing for for the elite program is the best thing for your kid, you're wrong.

Is doing the best for your child equal to doing "whatever it takes"? Teaching children responsibility for themselves, being a contributing citizen, having integrity in and out of school, being honest, doing their best on and off of the court, etc. should be the "doing the best for my child" attitude instead "whatever it takes" attitude. That just teaches them to take advantage of every loop hole possible. They become selfish and self important because you have taught them that the world rotates around them.
Sports are great, and when approached possitively through coaches, parents, and communities they can be a great learning tool. When it all comes down to it ----it's just a game. Be an axample of what this should be about, not the "change the world rules to rotate around my child" attitude.

So you quit your high school team (senior year, nonetheless) and now you're going around saying that playing for the elite programs in the state is the wrong thing to do.

just because you couldn't hack it and doesn't mean that the kid who WANTS to go to a good program is doing the wrong thing..

The Legislature did it's part by defeating the pro-transfer bill. Now it's time for the USHAA to have enough gumption and intestinal fortitude to put some teeth into it's present Transfer regulation so that it can be logically and pratically enforced. Without some loss of eligibility clause the present regulation is only a pro litigation document fed upon by unscrupulous lawyers. School Districts should have the right to insist that eligibility and loss of eligibility to participate in sports be a component tied to regulation of transfer, especially when it is obvious that the transfer is for athletics. Either impose a full 1 year ineligibility or a mandatory 1/2 season in every sport that a transfering individual participates in. Eliminate the problem. You'll have to grandfather the existing transfers recently granted but it's time to get tough and put the neccessary teeth into the existing UHSAA code.

most of the kids aren't a problem to the high school athletics system. They play within the rules and have fun or sometimes not. But at least they play by the rules. It is too bad that some few self-centered kids and parents ruin the tradition and simplicity of high school sports. I played with a few of those kinds of self centered kids and parents. More often than not, the self centered kid who was supposedly so much better than the rest of us ruined the team chemistry that all of us "average" ball players had together. Truth be told, us average ball players playing as a team won games. Throw the self centered kid and his parents into it and we didn't.

The topic was high school athletics, right?
Or did it change back to felonies for dog and cat abuse? There are other things that I'd like our legislature to address... like having our legislature declare all out of state move-ins ineligible for all high school sports; after all, those nasty out-of-staters and their expensive shoes are bringing a competitive spirit with them that threatens to pop our non-competitive everybody-gets-a-ribbon bubble. Thar be dragons out there!

Serious athletes understand that serious competition is about finding the extra 5% performance compared to others. Some students and athletes want to be serious, so let them go to elite leagues at elite schools with elite coaches. Other kids just want to "participate" and "exercise," so let them participate in their mediocre inclusive local program (where they have more of a chance to atually participate as a player without "serious" competition).

"Dynasties" are natural at every level of sports (Patriots, Lakers, Celtics, Bruins, Gators, Yankees), so there is no reason not to expect the same at high school or shelter would-be "serious" athletes from that reality.

The problem with public schools has always been their "one-size-fits-all" approach to everything. But today's economy is one of specialization and customization--what is right for one kid isn't right for another. Let parents and family consumers decide, let the free market reign and stop government bureaucrats from deciding what is best for someone else's children.

It's this kind of crab-in-the-bucket, everyone's a winner mentality that ensures all of us really end up being mediocre losers at whatever we do (sports or otherwise). The USA can't even win the basketball gold medal anymore!

This is a problem in most states and play where you live just doesn't work.Why? Because it's really never as simple as it appears. In my home state every time this issue made it to court, the state high school athletics association lost. Judges felt that high schools and districts trying to prevent athletes from playing was detrimental to the same kids they claimed they were fighting for. In every case, it was related to football and usually did not get cleared up until half way through the season. Play where you live is nice in theory but some coaches and kids just aren't the right fit and maybe there is a coach out there that can bring more out of a kid elsewhere. If kids can go to any private school of their choice, then why can't they go to a public school, provided they pay the additional out of boundary fees, if space is available at the other program. I am tired of hearing "teach your kid responsibility...Don't you dare let him transfer" Adults who make those statements seem to forget how often they have changed jobs to get a new boss or a better opportunity.

If your child is really that talented, will he or she not be discovered by the right people? Am I wrong, or will people who are really that talented stand well ahead of their peers, anyway?

I see the benefits to both sides! I don't blame parents either! This article is entirely one sided. I wouldn't say that I'm against play where you live, nor would I say I'm for it.

I also wouldn't profess to have the solution to this problem, but I do think that players/parents should have the right to go where ever they want to go. I also think that communities shouldn't have to pay for kids that don't live in that area. So maybe the answer is a full disclosure, and then try things out. Kids are already going where ever they want why not come up with a flexible way to make all parties happy, then the head of UHSAA wouldn't be in the court room so often that he can't see the ignorance of his bracket structure for every sport in the state!

Stop pointing fingers and start brainstorming alternative solutions. Doug should have done that before posting the article but that would have been more work.

I went to an average school in Utah with an average, at best, sports program. As a pitcher I threw 87-91 mph (not even an attempt to brag, used only to prove a point). My team consisted of my lifelong friends and my coaches weren't that good. However, I never paid for college in four years.
So I am proof that if you are good enough you will be discovered. Oh yeah, I had a true Dad, one that supported me and his family, and never once bothered my coaches.
So leave your kids alone, teach them work ethic and perseverence and you'll both be happier!

To Living proof:

obviously over the many years and many sports the vast majority of D1 athletes were discovered no matter where they went.

that doesn't take away from the point that for SOME being at a better program could give them the edge to accomplish their dreams..

I am so glad everything worked out for you and that you had a true dad, whatever that means. But there also lots of other "true" dads who will support their kids and help them move to other programs. If you do not know the experience of a particular kid, then I think it would be best not to judge others. Not all kids who move to other programs are doing so because of their own meddlesome parents. Sometimes they are leaving due to other kids' meddlesome parents. You only hear about the bad scenarios that make their way to the press and many parents who pull their kids out of certain programs never speak of the reasons nor do they criticize the prior coach. But I guess you never encountered that and have decided that their dads are not true since they did not keep them in a poor situation.