Reader comments: Book of Mormon has some company
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Snickerdoodle | 7:00 a.m. March 27, 2008
Now isn't this interesting. Don't other religions have their own books? (Koran, Torah, etc.) Why are the Roman Catholics the subject of the story?
Dave | 7:12 a.m. March 27, 2008
The difference between the Roman church and LDS in this regard is that the Roman church (along with such Protestant churches as the Anglicans) does not accept the apocryphal books as the basis for Christian doctrine. The LDS Church does, going so far as to quote the Book of Mormon paraphrase of Biblical texts in lieu of the original in its teachings.
Ponder this, Mr. Johnston, and reconsider your position on the authority of the Book of Mormon.
Ponder this, Mr. Johnston, and reconsider your position on the authority of the Book of Mormon.
Eli | 9:22 a.m. March 27, 2008
For the record, Jerry, you have now heard a non-believer say about the Book of Mormon that you CANNOT glean a lot of goodness from it.
I have read (and re-read) the BOM in just the spirit you recommend. I have found little to nothing in there that is not already in other books.
Perhaps you can help me. What original, unique, helpful, valuable notions are in the Book of Mormon that are not already found elsewhere?
All the teachings of Jesus found in the BOM are just repeated from the KJV of the Bible. The stories of warfare and moral struggle are superficial, and trite, especially compared against the Apocryphal books of Maccabees! There really is NO comparison - the BOM lacks the richness, depth, coherence, and literary sophistication of these others.
LDS believe the BOM contains so much wonderful content, but that perception reflects their illiteracy and ignorance rather than real, unique insight.
People who DO read widely (the "educated") tend to see the BOM in a less-impressive light. The presumed magic of the BOM blinds people to the really poor piece of literature and "scripture" it really is.
I have read (and re-read) the BOM in just the spirit you recommend. I have found little to nothing in there that is not already in other books.
Perhaps you can help me. What original, unique, helpful, valuable notions are in the Book of Mormon that are not already found elsewhere?
All the teachings of Jesus found in the BOM are just repeated from the KJV of the Bible. The stories of warfare and moral struggle are superficial, and trite, especially compared against the Apocryphal books of Maccabees! There really is NO comparison - the BOM lacks the richness, depth, coherence, and literary sophistication of these others.
LDS believe the BOM contains so much wonderful content, but that perception reflects their illiteracy and ignorance rather than real, unique insight.
People who DO read widely (the "educated") tend to see the BOM in a less-impressive light. The presumed magic of the BOM blinds people to the really poor piece of literature and "scripture" it really is.
Comments continue below
Fruma | 9:28 a.m. March 27, 2008
So that is your point? "people should realize Mormons aren't the only ones who have a beloved book of scripture filled with battles and larger-than-life heroes"???
And "if those who don't accept it as a sacred text would simply read it looking for something useful, I think they would come out ahead"???
Is this a way to get people to take the literary and moralistic aspects of the Book of Mormon seriously despite their doubts about its authenticity as a "sacred text"?
Why? This is a disingenuous sales tactic by you, Jerry. The Book of Mormon must be taken as it is put forward: as a LITERAL history of an ancient civilization that really existed.
It was never put forward or claimed to be a nice collection of moral platitudes and instructive stories, from which you can "glean a lot of goodness."
And, unfortunately, sciences and scholarship have shown NO EVIDENCE for the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon as the kind of historical record it claims to be!
So it sounds like your comparison with the books of the Maccabees is a tacit confession that the Book of Mormon is NOT "true," historical, and authentic. I agree.
And "if those who don't accept it as a sacred text would simply read it looking for something useful, I think they would come out ahead"???
Is this a way to get people to take the literary and moralistic aspects of the Book of Mormon seriously despite their doubts about its authenticity as a "sacred text"?
Why? This is a disingenuous sales tactic by you, Jerry. The Book of Mormon must be taken as it is put forward: as a LITERAL history of an ancient civilization that really existed.
It was never put forward or claimed to be a nice collection of moral platitudes and instructive stories, from which you can "glean a lot of goodness."
And, unfortunately, sciences and scholarship have shown NO EVIDENCE for the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon as the kind of historical record it claims to be!
So it sounds like your comparison with the books of the Maccabees is a tacit confession that the Book of Mormon is NOT "true," historical, and authentic. I agree.
Jeannie | 9:52 a.m. March 27, 2008
A well-written, interesting article -
Thank you for calling this to my attention. In a college class, "The Bible as Literature," I became acquainted with the Apocrypha and found in it much to enlighten as well as some exciting, good stories.
However, it is the Book of Mormon that has the most uplifting, life-saving thoughts. Those who read it thoughtfully, prayerfully, will glean much from its pages.
Thank you.
Thank you for calling this to my attention. In a college class, "The Bible as Literature," I became acquainted with the Apocrypha and found in it much to enlighten as well as some exciting, good stories.
However, it is the Book of Mormon that has the most uplifting, life-saving thoughts. Those who read it thoughtfully, prayerfully, will glean much from its pages.
Thank you.
Willford | 10:07 a.m. March 27, 2008
The sooner the church president receives a prophetic revelation that the BOM is an inspirational guide the same as with the BOA an not an authentic historical account of man's history the sooner the meormon church can come to a devine sense of reality and arrive at a closer union of worship and self reconciliation and embrace of God's love with all His glory and in harmony with all his creation and children. May God bless the mormons.
Matthew | 10:30 a.m. March 27, 2008
Isn't amazing how so many people know so much about what I, and other Latter-day Saints, have, and haven't, read! Isn't it amazing that so many people that have never met me, nor most other Latter-day Saints, know so much about my level of education and intelligence! How do they know this stuff?
Truth is they don't. So why do they act like they do? Are they intentional or accidental deceivers?
Truth is they don't. So why do they act like they do? Are they intentional or accidental deceivers?
Don | 11:54 a.m. March 27, 2008
Eli,
I have had exactly the opposite reaction to the Book of Mormon as you have. I find it to be incredibly rich. The teachings of Alma the Younger to his sons, of King Benjamin to the Nephites or of Abinadai to the court of King Noah are a spiritual feast. They are unique to the Book of Mormon and are as rich as anything found anywhere in scripture, with the possible exception of certain events during the ministry of Jesus Christ, as recorded in the New Testament. And why should they not be? They are the words of Christ, they teach of Christ and they testify of Christ. The literary contributions include many examples of Hebraic imagery, idioms, and allegories. Literary devices such as chiasmus, parallelisms and cognate accusatives fill the pages from 1 Nephi to Moroni. Warfare is described in a manner completely foreign to Joseph, yet has been shown to be historically accurate. Wordprint studies demonstrate a multiplicity of authorship. It testifies of Christ more frequently than any other work. But the best part of all is that the Spirit HAS indeed witnessed to me and to millions that it is verily true! It is true!
I have had exactly the opposite reaction to the Book of Mormon as you have. I find it to be incredibly rich. The teachings of Alma the Younger to his sons, of King Benjamin to the Nephites or of Abinadai to the court of King Noah are a spiritual feast. They are unique to the Book of Mormon and are as rich as anything found anywhere in scripture, with the possible exception of certain events during the ministry of Jesus Christ, as recorded in the New Testament. And why should they not be? They are the words of Christ, they teach of Christ and they testify of Christ. The literary contributions include many examples of Hebraic imagery, idioms, and allegories. Literary devices such as chiasmus, parallelisms and cognate accusatives fill the pages from 1 Nephi to Moroni. Warfare is described in a manner completely foreign to Joseph, yet has been shown to be historically accurate. Wordprint studies demonstrate a multiplicity of authorship. It testifies of Christ more frequently than any other work. But the best part of all is that the Spirit HAS indeed witnessed to me and to millions that it is verily true! It is true!
Wayne | 11:58 a.m. March 27, 2008
Fruma,
There is a mountain of evidence and a world of authenticity favoring the Book of Mormon. The phrase dealing with burying one's head in the sand comes to mind.
There is a mountain of evidence and a world of authenticity favoring the Book of Mormon. The phrase dealing with burying one's head in the sand comes to mind.
It makes sense | 1:00 p.m. March 27, 2008
Excellent article. No reason for hatred because you don't believe, but certainly all faiths and cultures have something good people can learn from.
RE; Eli | 1:15 p.m. March 27, 2008
You sound like a character in the Book of Mormon, he was an anti-christ named Korihor. Here is what he said to true believers about their faith, "...it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes becaue of the traditions fo your fathers,..." Alma 30:16.
Your comments that the LDS are illiterate and uneducated, are nothing less than hateful. Maybe you need to read the teachings of the Savior...again. I'd encourage you to focus on the "Love thy neighbor" part.
Your comments that the LDS are illiterate and uneducated, are nothing less than hateful. Maybe you need to read the teachings of the Savior...again. I'd encourage you to focus on the "Love thy neighbor" part.
Nukuchar | 2:35 p.m. March 27, 2008
I'd rather live my life knowing there IS a God and die finding out there isn't one than to live my life knowing there is not a God and die finding there is one!
My pereception of that God comes through my conversion to The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
If your lives bring you to that God you percieve from your individual sects then let it be, as long as it doesn't put down the rights of others.
My pereception of that God comes through my conversion to The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
If your lives bring you to that God you percieve from your individual sects then let it be, as long as it doesn't put down the rights of others.
Matt | 2:40 p.m. March 27, 2008
I think it is absolutely fascinating that we as people can look upon the EXACT same book and come away with completely different viewpoints.
Some read the BoM and get that warm fuzzy feeling that we have been told is “the spirit”. Others read the BoM and get that “ick” feeling.
Some read the Koran and get that warm fuzzy feeling that THEY have been told is of god. Others read it and get the “uh-oh” feeling.
One has to wonder how it is possible for some to feel one way and others to feel the opposite.
It might be because we have a pre-conceived notion of what we should feel.
Doesn’t make it true, does it?
If it is, then I saw a commercial last night that made me teary. I guess it is the "one true commercial".
"ick."
Some read the BoM and get that warm fuzzy feeling that we have been told is “the spirit”. Others read the BoM and get that “ick” feeling.
Some read the Koran and get that warm fuzzy feeling that THEY have been told is of god. Others read it and get the “uh-oh” feeling.
One has to wonder how it is possible for some to feel one way and others to feel the opposite.
It might be because we have a pre-conceived notion of what we should feel.
Doesn’t make it true, does it?
If it is, then I saw a commercial last night that made me teary. I guess it is the "one true commercial".
"ick."
Sharon | 3:58 p.m. March 27, 2008
I agree with Wilford, the church needs to be real about the authenticity of the BOM, it is a religious book of inspiration, but it is not a book of historical fact. As time goes on this will just become more and more apparent. The church should not wait until it is a crisis like they did with polygamy and black membership. The mormon church is a wonderful social/religious institution and it needs to firm up its foundation in truth to last through the coming ages.
ROBERT | 4:14 p.m. March 27, 2008
Although the Maccabees are not part of the cannonized Bible because it does not reverence with any of the other 66 books of the Bible but it does have significant value to the Jewish history and is referenced in other non-Biblical writings. That is why Evangelicals don't consider the Maccabees to be Biblical scripture worthy of doctrine (2 Timothy 2:16).
Where the Book of Mormon has no original manuscript or other non-scriptural writings that varify it's historical account.
Where the Book of Mormon has no original manuscript or other non-scriptural writings that varify it's historical account.
CB | 5:11 p.m. March 27, 2008
Sharon, I find it interesting that someone can say that the recording of one's life is not a book of historical fact. It's like telling me that my diary is nice reading, but has no relationship to what I have experienced. If the foundation of the church is so faulty, it should have collapsed long ago from the weight of it's growing membership. The more I read the Bible, the more the Book of Mormon is proved to be what it claims to be.
RE:Robert | 5:20 p.m. March 27, 2008
Actually the bible has no original manuscript. You will have made the discovery of the lifetime if you can find one. The biblical scientific community is waiting for your announcement.
Re: Wilford | 5:22 p.m. March 27, 2008
Thanks Wilford for blessing the Mormon faith. I think the LDS church has made a clear statement when it says it's another testament of Jesus Christ. Thats the reason to read it, not for a history lesson, but to learn more about Christ.
Wilford | 6:11 p.m. March 27, 2008
To Re: Wilford, hmm, good point, I don't know how to explain it but some how it seems spurious to me, to me it is like Hilary's story of ducking bullets in a war zone, it is good advice, keep your head down when people are shooting at you, but it just was not true, she wanted to fool people for her personal gain. It seems like that to me with the BOM, it is very inspiring, but I don't wish to be made a fool of. Thx.
Truth | 8:40 p.m. March 27, 2008
The book Mormon is true fact rather anyone wants to believe it or not. There will always be nonbelievers in all historical events...so be it.
Shamrock | 6:18 a.m. March 28, 2008
So why do we have to learn on Deseret News that other religions have their own books? Are we so ignorant we can't figure that out ourselves?
For Eli | 8:26 a.m. March 28, 2008
It's always good to hear from "the educated."
SFC RET Van Meter | 10:41 a.m. March 28, 2008
Here is what I like to tell people about the BOM, first the Bible tells us that Christ has other sheep that are not of this fold, they too must hear my word. Who are they, the BOM is one of the sheep, so when you read it, read it as a history book first and then reread it as a second witness of Christ.
I also got news for some parts of the BOM have been proven, mainly the Cities that existed. In 1980 while assigned to a Army base in Korea I saw a film about those Cities dating back to BOM times.
I also got news for some parts of the BOM have been proven, mainly the Cities that existed. In 1980 while assigned to a Army base in Korea I saw a film about those Cities dating back to BOM times.
SFC RET VAN METER | 11:13 a.m. March 28, 2008
In the LDS Fath we have what we call "The Articles of Faith", #11 States, "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the sam privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
If you look at history the Roman Catholic Church was the first Church after the Dark Ages and the rest split from there and over time more scrolls were found of Christ for us to learn more about him and yet people refuse to except some.
The writhing of the BOM are on Gold Plates and are kept out of sight of man who if they got their hands on would meld down and sale off for $ money. So would you of any fath would you wont them seen by the public were they could be stolen? Well would ya?
If you look at history the Roman Catholic Church was the first Church after the Dark Ages and the rest split from there and over time more scrolls were found of Christ for us to learn more about him and yet people refuse to except some.
The writhing of the BOM are on Gold Plates and are kept out of sight of man who if they got their hands on would meld down and sale off for $ money. So would you of any fath would you wont them seen by the public were they could be stolen? Well would ya?
Offended | 4:20 p.m. March 31, 2008
Offended that Jerry Johnston thinks I don't know that.
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