Looks like the east-siders are realizing the enthusiasm and excitement stirred up by some east side leaders and the state legislature, was in response to knee-jerk decisions and now they are in deep doo doo.....too bad they can't vote again and return to reality....a lot less painful than the NEW reality coming down on their dreams.

This is going to be a messy divorce and the East side should be paying its fair share. When lawyers get involved I am sure the East side will get less overall because you have to pay the lawyers right?

I admit I'm not educated on the details. As a general observer (and a resident of West Jordan), the bottom line to me is I'm facing a large tax increase so that my daughters won't have to go to a school with a dozen or more portable classrooms (that exists just down the block from me), while the East side residents won't have to have a tax increase in order to modernize their facilities. I don't know that the fairness of the short term deal outweighs the importance of what may happen to a large percentage of people should they find their taxes increase 30%. I myself will be ok (financially) but I know a lot of people who will not.

Always funny to hear west-side commentators say "they started it and should pay for it", well what price is fair? $10 million, $100 million, $1 billion - especially considering those same assets were paid for by (mostly) east-side dollars? Even in the "messy divorce" scenario husband/wife still get what's rightfully theirs, what they've paid for, and a reasonable share of assets.

Why should those in the remaining school district feel they have a "right" to 2/3 of all the assets at no charge, a right to $112 million in future money they will not pay a cent for, plus that tidy $12.7 million (from SB48) every other district in SL is required to "give" them? And they still demand more?!? All that money comes at someone else's expense. That's reality and hardly fair.

Most of the perceived tax increase the west side whines about is bases on -extremely- overstated growth rates from Jodan's Growth Summit. Funny with the recession and housing market in the toilet, I can't see the projected 15% growth this year! Fact is they missed (dramatically) the 1st year's projection by almost half. [what this means is the projected need for future schools also is diminished).

From this article, this sounds like a compromise. Neither side is getting everything they wanted and like usual both sides seem to feel like the other side isn't fully valuing their assets and issues. I hope the broader transition teams weigh this proposal, put forward by members of their own team, fairly and rationally.

It seems that the east side has been paying a lot over the years for the west side. Without the east side, west side fears a tax raise, which indicates that the east side has been funding the west side. When has the east paid sufficient dues? Where was the west side when the east side was growing leaps and bounds?

Hopefully the transition teams will do the same as their negotiators and rise above the rhetoric, and accept this deal. The benefits acheived by moving forward far outweigh any monetary gain achieved via arbitration and the delay.

This sounds like one of those divorces where the partner that wanted the divorce leaves the spouse with all of the children to raise, but wants an equal share of the property and yet pay no child support. Just like divorce there are many unintended consequences, especially concerning the children.

Being forced to pay $112 million for something I couldn't even vote on? We went through something similar about 230 years ago.

Parliment said "The taxes we are assessing are to pay for the French and Indian war, which provided protection to the colonists. East side taxes have contributed heavily to the building of west side schools." Both are true and fair statements.

The colonists said, "we recoginize we did receive a benefit, but we are citizens of the empire and have certain rights as such. Since we have no representation in Parliment, those rights have been denied, so we do not feel that we should have to pay the taxes." West siders had no say in the district split and are having bills thrust onto them that they had no say in creating. Not to say that there might not be some equity in passing the bills on, but west siders have been denied their rights as citizens and therefore should not have to bear the burden created without their representation.

So who does that make as King George III?

The west side has been paying taxes in the past which went towards the east side as we were all one school district. The fact the East side voted before having the true numbers in their pockets shouldn't get anymore than they deserve for their antics and denial of the west siders being able to vote.

The divorce analogy breaks apart in many ways:
1- East side is "keeping their kids". 35,000 of them enought for the 5th largest district in Utah. Not very "bachelor-like", eh?
2- The buildings and money for those kids should continue to support those same kids, don't you think? This proposal points out that even in that scenario the west side comes out $100-$200 ahead.
3- Where do the 300 kids formerly in Granite School District (but now in the new east side district) fit into this "divorce". Do seprateing couples typcially raid the neighbors for kids and/or assets?!?

The biggest unanticipated consequence of this entire process was the degree of selfishness prevalent among those in the remaining district and the misinformation behind it.

Time out on the play. A Question which has not been asked to date, is how many of the east side schools will close? There are 26 schools on the east side, which are under enrollment. There are 6 schools which are over 60% depreciated. What is the east side team doing to bring full disclosure to its constituents and users of those schools? Imagine that some of these schools are closed what will be put in their place and then we have to ask ourselves which developers get the contracts? Let us really look at this deal for what it could become. This will have a far reaching affect beyond education. It will change forever the landscape of our communities. For that we all are going to pay dearly. It will be the taxpayer that will build the dreams of every real estate developer. Now ask yourself how many of those brought this issue to where it is today. It is their vision and our pocket books that are going to pay any and pay forever. Was that your dream when you voted for this?

At the end of the day, the split comes down to ... the west pays the east $112 million ... despite our share of the population,"

Sounds like the twenty/thirty-somethings that've been riding mom & dads generosity for years and when Mom & Dad say "we have to fix out own house, and can't afford to buy you a new one", gets all upset 'cause they being treated unfairly.

Councilwoman Johnson - even if the bond share were broken down by that "population" share you talk about [even those that has nothing to do with who is PAYING it], I'd bet you'd still be griping about the $85 million that'd have to be paid. You completely ignore the hard fact that allocating the buildings strickly on geography gives the west side $200-$400 million more in assets, yet harp on not having every 100% of a bond issue you'll pay ~43% for.

The transition teams' proposal is obviously a compromise. Neither side is getting everything they want. Both sides are giving to ensure a "fair and equitable" transition. The east-side's huge concession is the agreement not to value schools. In return it is asking for a share of the bond proceeds. If the school board had allocated these bonds in a fair manner to begin with and not seen that every single penny of that $196 million had gone west even though the east is obligated to pay for the next 15 years, it wouldn't even be an issue. In fact, if the school board had been fair to begin with and truly represented the needs of the entire Jordan District, I really wonder if the division itself would have occurred.

Disenfrancised - Blame the legislature who created the law for the creation of school districts.

Also, what makes you entitled to my money? I have been paying on bonds to JSD for years, yet my kid went to an old elementary school, a really old middle school, and an old high school. I am paying for your schools through these bonds, yet receiving nothing for it. How's this for a solution. The distict that needs the new schools, pays for the new schools?

The "disenfranchisement" myth is still running strong, eh? Put in other words, it sounds like this:

"We on the west side ought to have a right to create/deny a new taxing authority that can't tax us". By extension then, they should also be given the "right" to grant permission on my local zoning laws (a WalMart in my backyard is fine 'cause they'll get the money), my sewer district board members , my mayor, my school board representatives, and everything else! In this scenario, when do I get to govern myself? At what level do I determine my own government?

Only dictators/totalitarians have a "right" to vote on everything.

To claim a right to economic equality in every political subdivision/decision has another name too - Communism.

As an East Side Resident who grew up on the West side of the valley, I would like to debunk a couple of things Eastsider like to throw out.

It is true that you are paying for many west side school TODAY. But when I went to school back in the 60's and 70's, There was one High School that covered Riverton, South Jordan and Herriman.

The East side of the valley was mostly residential back then, and the biggest money makers for the district was coming from the west side (KCC, Baccus). When I was in school the East Side schools got all the new equipment and we got what was left over.

Number 2 - Did you that are in support of the split notice the winning margin of the Vote? it was very close (something like 2 precent difference).

This split is not a over whelming as some might like people to say it.

Does anyone else get blown away by the numbers that are thrown around in this article? I am spending about $1000 to buy curriculum and materials to educate two of my children this year. And these districts have how many MILLIONS of dollars for what number of children?

We pay more in our property taxes to the school district than we spend to educate our own children. And I'm only complaining a little bit.

The west side did not get to vote in this matter. The east side should take what is offered and deal with it.

How many schools will close? None (given that enrollment in the east-side district will change from 33,500 to 33,000 in the next 10 years). Of course a school might be closed temporarily so that it can be replaced considering your valid point that those schools are death traps in the event of an earthquake. As it is there is a need for a few more schools in Draper that the current JSD keeps putting off to build schools on the west side.

BTW, if a school property goes up for sale, the local city gets first shot a purchasing it. So if a developer gets their hands on it, it will only because the local citizens/government didn't want it enought to buy it.

To PS - There are a number of schools on the east side that currently are in such disrepair that it would cost more to repair them than to tear them down and rebuild them (like was done with Jordan High). These students will still need a school to go to, even while theirs is crumbling around them. As for growth, look at Draper. It has been projected that there will need to be a couple more middle schools and at least one high school.

The current proposal gives the west side 2/3 of all assests. The money they will give back to the east side would simply be the portion the east has paid to the bond, nothing more. So it's simply giving back what is theirs. I think the west should take this plan and run. If we go to arbitration, the arbitors might realize we've got the lion's share, and try to give some back.

KF, I'm sure my ancestors in Wiltshire England in 1770 were asking “why don't the colonists have to pay for the war from which they benefited?” just as you are asking what right I have to your money.

My family, including my parents, sisters, brothers, and myself, have also been paying on JSD bonds and into other taxes supporting the district since 1959. Some of my family has been within the confines of the district since 1850 and none later than 1869 and have been paying whatever taxes were appropriate to support the local schools at the time. I think I have a right to vote about matters affecting the district, just as the colonists had a right in the 1770s to representation on how they were to be taxed. I guess you are claiming the title of King George III??

Disenfranchised? at 11:22: I’m sorry if you can’t see the direct comparison, there is nothing more I can do for you if my first response to KF does not clear it up for you.

Interesting how the east team NOW wants to talk fairness! Why are we in this mess anyway?

The funny part is that the whole time the east side was being built up it was taking all of the agricultural and business taxes that were on the west side for their own use. My grandfather paid his taxes for all his land on the west side for 60 years as well as his income taxes with the majority of that money going to building up the schools on the east side. was it fair? according to the people on the east side, yes. After all once it was built up the west side would see expansion and then their money would go there. Oh wait, thats not going to happen.

Are the east side residents going to repay all that they took from the west side when they were growing? I think for it to be totally fair they need to look at all the taxes that came from both sides of the valley versus costs since 1960 and make sure it is all even. After all it is fair.

Since the east siders want a divorce, why not distribute the wealth based on the numbers of kids in the two districts?

Even so, like every other divorce, it is the kids who will ultimately suffer. Neither of the new districts will have the same amount of funds for education (per student) because of duplicating overhead costs.

The trouble is, the voters who caused this mess want to have more money after the split that they had (per student) before the split.

Yes, the is very, very much like a divorce.

The West side has been paying the whole time for East side growth. They now are the beneficiaries so the East wants out.

This needs to go to arbitration since it seems the split is going to take place no matter what the damage it should cause. I am in favor of each keeping the infrastructure that exists but the bond money should not be split so unfairly. That full amount should belong in the remaining district because it was the Jordan District who approved and has the right to exercise those options, not some new taxing authority.

Since growth really is occurring in Draper and student population diminishing in the Brighton feeder area I would say one school should be closed in the next two years, and probably two more over the next ten. We could just bus kids from Draper over to the half-empty schools, but that isn't go to make parents happy.

Who are most of the west siders, east siders who have moved here, the children of east siders, or east sider grandkids. If you would keep your people on your side of the Jordan there wouldn't be a problem. But no, you ruined your side, now you've ruined the other side. Thanks!

Your arguments miss on a couple of points:

...But when I went to school back in the 60's and
70's, There was one High School that covered Riverton, South Jordan and Herriman....

And there were only enough kids to fill that one high school. In the 40s, only Jordan High existed and served all the district.

...and the biggest money makers for the district was coming from the west side (KCC, Baccus)...

This is also a myth. KCC & Baccus are "centerally assesed" for taxes and have been for decades. What that means is they don't pay local (i.e. city/school) property taxes. Even way way back in the day when Kennecot DID pay local taxes, it only amounted to ~10% of the total budget for JSD, not the 50%-70% you imply.

...Number 2 - Did you that are in support of the split notice the winning margin of the Vote? it was very close (something like 2 precent difference)...

Uh, 53.14% FOR 46.86% against - a margin greater than 12 of those elected in the same election had to win their seats - should they be "cast out" because they didn't meet your arbitrary threshold of "goodness"?

The fact that you feel you have a "right" to vote on everything you think affects you is the falsehood under which your argument breaks down. Either you beleive in the ability for self-governance or you don't. My question to you was/is where do you draw the line? Should my permission be required for you to elect a Mayor. Should my permission be required for your Planning Commission to approve a new development? Shoud I have to ask your permission to govern myself?

The funny joke is that people still beleive that farms pay as much in taxes as single family homes.

I'll bet they think that farmland pays more in taxes than downtown SLC skyscraper businesses well!!

You say "I am in favor of each keeping the infrastructure that exists but the bond money should not be split so unfairly"...

But you're perfectly OK with keeping 2/3 of the billion dollars in assets?

How if that even reasonable?

You pay 43% of the taxes, have 57% of the kids, want 67% of all the built assets AND refuse to consider giving up a dime of $196 million in bonds that the east side will pay (starting this November) $112 million for?

The east-side hasn't asked for a repayment of the decades of subsidies granted to the west. There is no way to have two sustainable districts and make the dollars even - the west simply would owe too much. The agreement recognizes that fact, and offers a reasonable solution.

When one group votes to increase another groups property taxes that is when the line should be drawn.

Your argument about self government is moot. You had representation in JSD as all others who held a vote for those running for school board. It was that some disagreed with the elected officials and they think a smaller district would get them what they want.

What we get is not yet known, but so far it seems nothing like what was believed. We have equalization plans afoot, programs in limbo and a great deal of problems to overcome. Now the East side wants to argue for more of the money then they are entitled to. That bond money should not be sent to the new East side but stay with Jordan District for whom that money was approved.

""If you would keep your people on your side of the Jordan there wouldn't be a problem. But no, you ruined your side, now you've ruined the other side.""

I guess you're all in favor of the new district then? If the east side has screwed up their neighborhoods, you should be well to be rid of them (through no effort of your own, no less!). BONUS!

Anon,

I am perfectly happy with leaving the entire district intact because it functions so well. The East side can get by with less while the West side is almost insolvent without equalization and large increases in taxes. This is a lot like divorce and the greater resources should go where they are needed not where they are needed least. The East should pay alimony until the West could actually support itself.

"When one group votes to increase another groups property taxes that is when the line should be drawn."

#1 - the ONLY way for propety taxes to go up in the JSD is for JSD voters to approve it. This has not happened. Taxes across the entire current JSD will be going up in November, because the current JSD board voted to issue all the remaining bonds authorized in 2003. This is happening to both east and west sides.

There is no constitutional guarantee of economic equality in creating political subdivisions (unless you live under a communist government). Each city, county, and state, taxes their own to support their own needs. When a city is created, or an annexation takes place it is virtually impossible to make it fiscally neutral.

Anon 5:18 the west is far from being insolvent without the continued subsidy - in fact the remainind JSD will be the 4th largest in the state, and in the top 10 in taxable value per student. Plus, they get $12.7 million in other SL County residents' taxes from "equalization".

Heres a solution sell your house and move. Mine is up for sale, it is not worth the taxes I am going to have to pay for a substandard school district

Where does this concept that the west is paying the east come from? This is a major piece of propaganda. This money belongs to the east. This is an allocation, not a payment. Forget about the past for a minute. This is money that the tax payers will contribute over the next 15 years. East side tax payers will pay this $112 million over the next 15 years. Whatever your claims, you will be hard pressed to convince me that $112 contributed by the east side over the next 15 years is not the property of the east side. Your needs...our needs, bla bla bla. How can you even argue that the money east side tax payers will provide over the next 15 years should not belong to them?

The concept West paying the East comes from Jordan school District paying the new Jordan East money beyond what was agreed to when voters approved the bond. They should pay enough money for one school that was to be built in Draper under the bond so the new district can build it and fulfill the obligation made to voters who approved the bond. Now we hear $112 million in bond money is to be sent to the new district. That is certainly more than one school value and endangers the other promised building on the west side.

Being large and not having enough money to cover the basics is insolvency and that is what the reality of the split is. Taxes must go up as stated in the impact analysis in order to maintain current levels.

The idea that the west will not have enough money to cover the basics is just more propaganda. The money provided through equalization by the school districts in the county alone is more than the current Jordan District has spent in the average year for east side schools. The east side will likely build more new school buildings over the next several years than the west side will. Growth is not the only situation that causes a requirement to build. Ask the Salt Lake City School District. How much growth did they have over the last 10 years? How many schools did they build? The answer is: they byilt several new schools. Who will help the east side build new schools? While the east side is providing for its own needs, it will be sending several million dollars to the west side to deal with their issues. Again, $112 million is not being sent to the new district. $112 million belongs to the new district. They are paying the bill over the next 15 years. It is their money.

The bright side of this whole debate is that the East side will get out of Jordan District, which is probably the WORST district in the state. They have way too many district employees and don't treat teachers (the people who make the biggest difference) like they should.

A Teacher,

ASD treats teachers less than JSD and should have been the only district split, but it is quite common for districts and administrators to cover their own hides and not back up the teachers. If you want a Principal who supports you then shop around. I knew of several in JSD I wanted to work for.

Bumble Bee,

Fact is not propaganda and you are simply ignoring the obvious. The money belongs to the Jordan school district, approved by the people in the District and was to be spent for specific bonded projects. When you wanted to create your own private empire that fact should have been taken into consideration. You do not deserve the money beyond what was supposed to be built and requiring more just piles on to your negative image.

The other fact that you continue to ignore is that needs were being met, maybe not yours, but the district as a whole. That is where selfishness comes in because of an inability to see beyond your own needs and wants. Because of your groups selfishness now needs of the greater majority of students are in jeopardy. The legislature is trying to correct that with equalization which will harm us all.

I don't even live or work in either of the districts, did not get a vote but I will have to pay for your greed. That is all it comes down to--Your groups greed and selfishness. Who on earth would tear apart the top district in the nation?? Foolishness, plain foolishness!

Top district in the nation..Yeah right. Maybe for management but thats about it. It is a shoe string budget district. A meat factory your kid goes to for 13 years. No pride just a place. With a smaller district there might be pride among everyone.

Pride cometh before the fall. They have but one direction to go after the split and that is down in the ratings.

JSD is the top large district in the nation despite a shoe-string budget. You can blame the budget on the State as they feel way behind in funding decades ago and are only now trying to catch up. But JSD is a quality program as far as public school districts go and tearing it up shows a lack of common sense because less dollars will go to the classroom simply due to duplication of services.

Where does it say JSD is the top district in the nation? It is nothing more than a large corporation. They do not care about their employees most of them are not happy and leave for a better place when a job comes available. Their buildings are falling apart and parents are not happy about their kids education. Their programs are a shoe string budget. With a smaller district there will be pride among parents, students, and employees because they might be known as a name not a number. Where is there proof JSD is the top district in the nation or is it self-proclaimed? They are not even the top school district in Utah and that is not saying much.

I am selfish I will admit. I am tired of paying for other peoples kids to get the nice buildings and my kid is in one of the rundown buildings. By the time it gets to where my kid goes he will be graduated. So if I pay extra in taxes at least I know my kid is getting a piece of the pie. What should be looked at here is all the fat cats in administration getting the high pay and the board giving themselves a raise. That my friends is where our money is going. With a smaller district we can monitor them and have a say in where our hard earned money goes.

We should all be able to vote on everything that affects our taxes. If I live in Sandy, but my business is in Salt Lake, I should be permitted to vote for the Salt Lake Mayor and City Council. They make decisions all year that affect me and my taxes. How can we allow these people to make decisions that affect us without an having an opportunity to vote? For that matter, the very origins of this country should be called into question. When our founding fathers decided that they were being taxed, but had little representation in government, they should have asked the British to vote before colonists declared their independence. The British had every right to expect that the colonists would send them tax dollars in perpetuity. How could the colonist secede from the British Nation without even allowing the British a vote? This is all clearly unconstitutional. No group of people should be permitted to decide that they wish to govern themselves. It is just not fair to those left behind.

This is more like the Civil War than the Revolutionary War. You have representation for your taxation in JSD. You could vote for people to represent you on the school board (or run yourself) and if they weren't to your liking you could vote for someone else next time. But that didn't satisfy many and a Succession was called and voted on.

The irony is this does not give more of a say with a different board than what presently exists. Boards even in Charter schools, tend to do what they feel is best for the school(s) and ignore parents. Will you then call for another revolt against Jordan East?

I also find your analogy flawed in that when the American Revolution happened the Yankees didn't demand taxes back. Leave those 112 million dollars with Jordan and move on. The voters approved the bonds and going back on them (or changing who has say in how those bonds will be used) was not covered in the split law.

I live on the west side, didn't get to vote and have paid taxes to have east side schools built for years. I have also shopped on the east side for years. I guess I will make sure I don't spend anymore tax dollars in Sandy. I hope the mayors of Cottonwood Heights and Sandy are happy when all this is done. This is definitely not about kids!