why only crickets commenting on this one? Where are all those motherly tears when their boys are dumped on the side of the road?

I know little of this church, but if some folks got booted out of it, or they chose to leave to go get high or to be vagrants, so be it. They have that choice. A church's leadership has the right to choose its own members. Anyone in the flock has the right to leave if they want. They even have the right to ditch the current leadership and start their own church if they're unhappy.

The same as their families/wives/etc. have the choice to either go with them, or let them go and stay with the church. Truly, ts a wonderful thing we have, Freewill. (Kooky "brainwashing" theories notwithstanding).

"why only crickets commenting on this one? Where are all those motherly tears when their boys are dumped on the side of the road?"

Funny though. The crickets speak VOLUMES!

I agree, free will is a wonderful thing. However, I am also incredibly grateful to our government for putting pressure on my own ancestors to stop practicing polygamy. Otherwise, I'm afraid I would be living a very similar lifestyle that the FLDS are living today.

Hopefully, future generations of FLDS people will feel the same gratitude that I do. God bless Texas and the USA!

And I guess those 14 yr old boys must've all chose to go,huh? Amazing how consistent their stories are.

Naive would be a misuse of the word to describe you.

They have no choice. They're brainwashed and so it would appear are you.

Warren Jeffs and his lackeys assign the children and women to others. They have no such right to do so but they still do it.

How immature are you?

How is it a choice to lose your home and family when you have a different religious opinion? Try reading a little more before making ignorant statements. Men and their sons are clearly the victims here when you have a few sexual preditors running deciding who and what your family relations are.

Alexander...

They have your children. There are manned guard towers. Does this sound like 'anyone in the flocke has the right to leave if they want'? I've been followed by the thugs in the suburbans with tinted windows. They don't seem to be willing to entertain a change in church leadership. Freewill is a wonderful thing. It is more than absent on these compounds.

Alexander, you are failing to realize that this is a group that indoctrinates their people from the cradle---they are told their prophet is all powerful and has a say over every aspect of your life---they can and do "throw people out" for no-reason know to anyone but the prophet and his inner circle--they also literally give wives and children away with the threat of eternal damnation on both sides----very little free will in this group.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Regardless what FLDS did within their own religion does not give Texas a right to traumatize the children (PTSD anyone?). Even within Evangelical circles, those who are disinfranchised or bitter or disagree have a different views of their ex-religion than those in it.. Why lower ourselves? Texas needs to be moral regardless of what others do.

The big deal in this case is the alleged abuse. Period.

Kids need to be protected, and what applies to the rest of us should apply to the FLDS as well. The state of Texas was within their rights to investigate and if no real proof of abuse is found the kids will be returned to their mothers.

If the FLDS really wanted to straighten this out and be left alone they would wait for their "spiritual" wives to grow up to the legal age of consent before marrying them. The claims of "cult" are always used when people don't understand a religion but it may be applicable here. If the FLDS are not a cult why do they go out of their way to look like one. They are secretive and separatist that willingly break the law (be it bigamy or underage sex).

Everyone has the right to worship god without breaking the law. If they disagree with the law they should fight to get the laws changed and not continue to break them.

How can anyone excuse the horrendous and reprehensible behavior of these FLDS men? And what about the adult women who have been complicit--FOR YEARS--in enabling the repetetive rape and forced "spiritual marriages" of their underage daughters to perverted old men? HUH? How innocent do these mothers think their daughters will be after a trip to the temple mattress? How is it that a felonious sub-culture is allowed to flourish in this country, today? The FLDS is an abomination and should be held accountable (like any other church in the USA) for their illegal behaviors. If these little girls were anywhere else, or belonged to any other religion--they would have been removed from their abusive environment LONG AGO!!! Just because these little girls know no other home, does not mean that they should be returned to the place of their abuse. How crazy is that? WHERE ARE THE BOYS AND YOUNG MEN OF THIS COMMUNITY? WE SEE NO EVIDENCE OF THEM! That's because boys and young men are systematically exiled from the only homes they know when they begin to pose a threat to the perverted older men of the community. The older pervs don't want competition!

Finally a story that is not biased towards the FLDS

Yeahhhhh <shaking head>. Let's forgo any PTSD today and let these inbreeding molesters ruin these lives for their entire lifespan. Ignorance, apathy and disdain for children. "Don't mess with Texas"

Who is traumatizing children? Texas, or the FLDS? Is it really ok because this is a religious group to force (yes, force) girls barely out of their teens into marriage? How do you expect the State to react? Sit on their hands and let this keep going on? If some 50 year old slept with your twelve year old daughter because "God told him to" would you be so forgiving?

Yes, because taking the kids out of the situation is so much worse than leaving them on those grounds to continue to be exploited.

You want to talk fairness? Lets be fair. This is the first time something of this calibur has occurred in Texas. There are no policies for something like this and no laws to help them. CPS is doing the best they can considering the circumstances.

Would leaving the children with these people be moral? I say no. Maybe CPS isn't handling this the best way, but they're doing the best they can with what they have. They are the ones working above and beyond the call of duty to try and help in this situation and yet they're the ones being made out as the bad guys.

The most telling phrase in the whole article is: In interviews, the FLDS people on the YFZ Ranch have refused to address allegations of child abuse and sex abuse leveled against them."

They moan and cry and say their children are being ripped from their sides... but that wouldn't happen if they didn't sexually and physically abuse them....

I feel like the FLDS is trying to frame this as a witch hunt against polygama when its not--all about child abuse plain and simple. In this day and age no one really cares which adults are sleeping with whom: but a 16 year old girl? Cmon...

There have always been crazy cultists in the world who believe they must be separate from the rest, and somehow better, and there will always be some odd cult or the other that will continue to come to light, and go back underground.

Hallelujah, a story that isn't FLDS propaganda!

Wow, I loved the comment in this article:

"They howl and cry that they're being ripped away from this wonderful family condition they're in when they've got blood on their hands.

So True.......

First of all.. WHy is it that when a 15 year old gets pregnant anywhere in the USA, no one bats an eyelash.. But when a 15yr old gets pregnant AND is involved in some kind of religous act, they say its ABUSE and take the kids from their families!??!??!! i dont get it! Is it because she is married at 15? and that is the wrong deed here? Why??? sounds to me like she is being responsible for her actions by getting married FIRST! Just because a girl gets married at 15 doesn't make it a "forced" act.. Believe it or not, there are mature 15 year olds out there! everyone just needs to leave them alone! and let them believe what they believe! hello.. free country!!!!!

Anderson Cooper from Cnn interviewed a Sect woman last night..She would not answer any questions and avoided everything and Just kept saying she wanted her children and grandchild back
Anderson asked her how many kids she had and there ages
She had 5 kids the oldest girl being 18 with a 10 month old child.. So how old was this girl when she was married off and which old man is the father of this young child

Just because it happened to someone else may make it ironic, but certainly not right. I am concerned that under state authority, with inaccurate information, the state of Texas can violate a person(s) constitutional rights. The girl wasn't even in Texas and they still can't find her. The man accused was not even in Texas, and what are they going to do for these children that will be better for them--Put them in foster homes where they will really be mistreated and abused?

And,,,,
"American taxpayers have unwittingly helped finance a polygamist sect that is now the focus of a massive child abuse investigation in West Texas, with a business tied to the group receiving a nearly $1 million loan from the federal government and $1.2 million in military contracts."

Fort Worth Star-Telegram

You say 15 like that is the youngest they go. Not true my friend.
But if you want to talk 15- let's talk 15. Problem is it's with OLDER or shall I say OLD men. If that happened anywhere else- the parents would be upset- not happy- AND the men would be punished. Hello- have you not seen headlines about men going to jail for bedding with someone under 18??? Open your eyes and stop thinking this is about religion. It's not.

CNN is one channel that has stayed totally biased against the FLDS. Look into the true background and lives of the people who are so outspoken "against" the FLDS. Maybe they are hiding their own sins by crying foul play against others!
From Napoleon Hill "No accurate thinker will judge another person by that which the other person's enemies say about him."

To Erika: I've seen all kinds of pictures of boys and young men. Playing kickball, walking around, smiling, hugging their mothers. I don't know what you're talking about, suggesting that there aren't any boys.

To others: "brainwashing" is something that people use when they can't bear to admit that other people think differently than they do. So it *must* be brainwashing, yeah thats it.

IF (and thats a big if), there were any *minor* boys that were forcibly kicked out and abandoned, then yes, the mothers of those boys have some serious explaining and possible jail time to do.

But once again, so many of you lump all these people into one mindless borg collective - where the sins of one or a few get transferred to every single person. If the state has charges against individuals, then let them file them! But the state has no right to effect mass detainments in concentration camps, nor to detain children en masse with no real probable cause other than anonymous accusers who they (still) can't produce.

If a police officer pulls you over for a burned out tail light and finds you holding an open can of beer, would you expect the officer to simply ignore the beer in your hand?

Texas authorities received several calls from a girl claiming that she was being sexually abused at the YFZ Ranch.

When authorities investigated the ranch, they found other 16 y/o or younger girls who were either pregnant or were already mothers -- suggesting possible child sexual abuse.

Whether the original phone call was anonymous or not, whether it was from a real victim, or just somebody's idea to get authorities to investigate, once the authorities discovered possible cases of abuse they were obligated to remove EVERY child who was potentially being abused or at risk of being abused.

It's a terrible situation for those children to be separated from their parents, but it's better than leaving them to be abused forever.

Alexander said: "church's leadership has the right to choose its own members."

Right, but let me ask you this: do they have the right to take children (and a wife) away from their father (/husband)?

Tanob said: "WHy is it that when a 15 year old gets pregnant anywhere in the USA, no one bats an eyelash.. But when a 15yr old gets pregnant AND is involved in some kind of religous act, they say its ABUSE and take the kids from their families!??!??!!"

My reply to this is that statutory rape is against the law. Odds are that the 15 year old girl anywhere in the U.S. made the decision on her own to have sex. Plus, a person under the age of 18 is not considered an adult, so therefore having sex with an adult constitutes statutory rape on the part of the adult. The 15 year old in this case did not make the same choice.

Based on the poor logic used by so many individuals I have to wonder if FLDS members are posting under the guise of sympathetic outsiders. To answer your question, Tanob, the reason nobody "bats an eyelash" when a 15 year old gets pregnant somewhere else in this country is because it is usually by a boy close to her age. But anytime a 15 year old girl gets pregnant by somebody over 18 it is illegal. Don't be so ignorant as to think we don't prosecute them as well. Perhaps you could share this with your buddies back at the compound.

Why do these cults give so much power away to their patriarchs?

Don't they know this is ultimately what always happens?

"Texas should be moral?"

They are, they got a complaint, they acted on it, and found probable cause. What don't you understand about that.

Just where would we be today if we had not followed the Prophet and obeyed the laws of the land? Let's see, no David A, no Brooke White, no Schwimmers, no Osmond's, no Julianne and Derick Hough, and no Mitt Romney's. There was a time and a season, and it is not the season anymore. Plural marriage was a great part in helping these women who were without husbands, due to death, in getting across the plains. Time eventually tells the story, those who chose not to follow the council of the Prophet in the late 1800's are in trouble with the law and may lose their children. Oh and Tanob, a 15 year old girl with and 18 year old boy is statutory rape, a 15 year old girl with a 50 year old man is that plus sick and wrong.

Just a few thoughts. I don't wish to absolve any of the fathers or mothers in this situation, but it is obvious that the leadership of this religion has been inculcating their followers for generations, and so most of the blame must lie with Warren Jeffs and his ilk. If these people had been taught to honor and obey the laws of the land (in other words, sex with minors/children is BAD, domestic abuse is BAD, etc.), there would be no problem with these people regardless of how strange their other beliefs might be. It is a bitter irony that they now have such contempt for the very laws and agencies that could protect them and their children from such abuses. Furthermore, when these agencies try to enforce the law and offer that protection, their hands are slapped away. These people are showing classic signs of being in an abusive relationship with their religious leadership. Unfortunately, there are complex constitutional rights involved here, and I can only hope that Texas handles this situation carefully, especially for the children's sake.

tanob and others:
People keep saying it is a problem because of the vast difference in age of the girls and their husbands etc.. That is an oversimplification. The problem is that in this situation it is not a case (or many cases) of youthful indiscretion, but rather an INSTITUTIONAL practice. Kids all over are getting pregnant (and it is detrimental to our economy and society), but most of them are not being commanded to do so. Here is a provocative question for some of you thinkers out there. If polygamy was legal, and subject to all the same laws as legal marriage is today, and all these men were legally responsible for their wives and children whether the prophet said so or not, might that not open this society up a bit? If not for the underage and child abuse aspect, who gives a rodent's posterior how many women the guy next door can score with as long as I'm getting mine? And isn't that at least a small part of this problem...someone somewhere doesn't think it is fair for some geezer to be getting more action than they are?

Its a myth Mormons practised polygamy because women were widowed and there were not enough men. It is also a myth that children married at 14 in the mid 1800's. All this info is available online. The average age of menstration in 1850 was 16.5 years. Better nutrition is suspected of lowering the age as time has passed. early Mormons were marrying other men's wives. No offense just the facts.

Ha ha ha!

See what I've been telling you all along!

"They took these kids out because they physically saw and found abuse." (Carolyn Jessop)

Wow. What a revelation.

*listen to snickerdoodle!*

I am curious, in another story it was stated that there were a couple dozen adolescent boys who were seperated from the main group of children today. Now, in a group that includes over 400 kids wouldn't you expect more than a couple dozen would be adolescent boys. I wonder where are all the teenage boys in this group?

Alexander: are you seriously claiming that there are no "lost boys" and no boys have been kicked out?

It is different because many times if a fifteen year old (or younger) gets pregnant in the general public she has help from various areas. She can get help sometimes through her family, school system, counselors and advise regarding adoption etc. If an older man is involved prosecution can be brought in a court of law. The girls in the FLDS community are often forced into marriage to a much older man and are told that it is their duty according to "God". If they refuse, they are punished or perhaps kicked out of their family. They do not have their free will usually and are "brainwashed". It's very easy to see the difference between them and a struggling young person in the general public!

I've heard from more than one source that only the first wife and children of a polygamist are the husband's financial responsibility. The tax-payers support all of his other wives and children because the mothers are considered single parents. Gee, what a racket these good Christians have going... Lots of young wives, no financial responsibility for them... Sex and more sex! We need to clean out all of these "ranches" and enclaves. Save the children!!!

The Deseret News is censuring comments on this forum. They have refused to publish mine though there was nothing abusive, offensive, off-topic, etc. Please do not think these comments are representative of opinions the News does not want to here.

Not only is statutory rape illegal but polygamy is against the law. The US army almost went to war with the LDS church over the polygamy issue. I have sympathy for the kids of the FLDS, they did not choose their family. The parents however, know that they are breaking the law and also being immoral by allowing their young children to be married to old geisers.

I truly feel sorry for all of the people who claim to have been harmed by their experiences in the FLDS. However, their hatred for the FLDS and its members blinds them to a more important truth: That each person in the United States, regardless of how despicable their conduct, is entitled to due process of law, equal protection of the law, and all of the rights set forth in the Bill of Rights forming the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.

I am sickened by the illiteracy of a large majority of the posters on the Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune website. Each adult and child who is a member of the FLDS has these constitutional rights.

"Just where would we be today if we had not followed the Prophet and obeyed the laws of the land? Let's see, no David A, no Brooke White, no Schwimmers, no Osmond's, no Julianne and Derick Hough, and no Mitt Romney's."

COME ON !! The Church is never going to get anywhere with its members saying the most ODD things, in the most public of places. The problem with the Church is the smartest members shut-the-heck-up, and the good hearted dumb bells open their mouths and make the rest of us look like weirdos.

Here's a hint to online posting. If you can see a General Authority saying it -on-line- post your thought. If you can't imagine a GA posting it.... please don't.

Sad. Sad our government has to once again go through the same problem that should have been taken care of correctly in the prior Brigham Young era. In that time period there were 200 men who were jailed for their wrongdoings. The response from the women then was a huge media frenzy that they needed to have their husbands brought back to their households since the men were their sole providers for them, their (typically) multiple children, their jointed co-wives and their kin.
I don't think the use of tanks was the best way to approach the situation, but hopefully this time it will send a clearer message that child molest/polygamy/incest/ and possibly rape ARE NOT tolerated in the US of A. In Africa and many other countries there are common young arranged marriages/cases of abuse/rape and statuates that men have more authority than women (let's not go into that)... but focus on the issue.
AMERICA already has enough problems with sexual predators please don't encourage more of them.

Here in AZ there have been many stories in the newspaper and TV news, of women who left Colorado City and the FLDS, and they all tell the same stories of abuse. Carolyn Jessop's book ("Escape") relates the very same pattern. Indeed, this is about abuse. And IT IS happening in Texas, Colorado City, and Canada. I don't know how in the world Texas is going to sort through this mess but if it is ever going to happen anywhere, it will happen there. Arizona and Utah are a joke. The laws are ignored, welfare fraud and abuse continue. Go Texas. "Ya'll" are heroes. Don't give up the fight to protect these kids.

Fredd, Perhaps you yourself should check the facts before spouting off. A visit to any cemetery in America will show that many girls married at 15 to 17 years of age, and many of them had children at 16 and 17. Their husbands were usually no more than five years older than they were, and the practice was not only legal but also common. Many Mormon women were widowed, and often those women were married off, even assigned to be married, to polygamous men. I've read many instances of this in old family histories. In the Martin and Willie handcart companies, men often died while leaving their wives behind because they required more food and didn't get it or shared it with their wives and children. Someday you should visit the historical handcart sites in Wyoming and learn some of the stories about those Saints who had to walk across the plains and mountains when an early winter hit. Regardless of the reason for polygamy before 1890, it was practiced in the Mormon Church and then was banned and eventually eliminated in the church. It wasn't an easy change with many Mormons, even leaders, refusing to accept the ban.

Rich,

Thanks for stating that so eloquently. My ancestor was there helping to rescue the Martin and Willie companies.

The definition of what is a child has changed over time. There is really no cut and dried answer as to when a person is old enough to make decisions like marriage, although the state specifies an age today.

I think most religions have some element of control. In the mainstream LDS religion, I see plenty of cases of manipulation. Who is qualified to say when a child is freely making their own decisions? Should the state of Texas step in to support children who are being forced to go to Sunday School?

Quote"WHERE ARE THE BOYS AND YOUNG MEN OF THIS COMMUNITY? WE SEE NO EVIDENCE OF THEM! That's because boys and young men are systematically exiled from the only homes they know when they begin to pose a threat to the perverted older men of the community.
Erika This only goes to prove that you know NOTHING about FLDS. We are normal people with normal often dull lives,i would like to know why you assume that the Temples are for orgy purposes on helpless young girls,Where did you acquire this supposed knowledge?where are your facts that this was even taking place?You know NOTHING.As for seeing evidence of young males in our community--what do you cruise every house on every day documenting this?It may be dissapointing to you but older men do have more things on their minds than sex.