Shame on Texas.

Hey! Texas! Leave these kids alone!

i will be the first to say that if children are abused...something needs to be done...and if there are under age girls married ..with children deal with THOSE cases..but i do not belive that all 416 kids were abused on that ranch...i have read post of people saying their polygamist ,theyve commited a crime they do not deserve there children..how do u figure that? this case has so many aspects to it...and i believe will end badly for all involved..these ad litems will be more on the side of cps..no matter what the children want..i believe SOME of these people are being treated unfairly..they are already talking about terminating parental rights...how can they do this so soon? we will see this go all the way to supreme court..{and no matter what they do if they keep these children in foster care most of the children will return to parents or family when they turn of age anyway}

Ooookay. They illeagaly take away cell phones to prevent witness tampering, now remove the parents so CPS can coach the children into saying they were abused? Don't mess with Texas' children my aching butt. That is exactly what they are doing.
Why doesn't Texas CPS remove all Catholic children because there are a few claims of pedophilic priests? They would be following the same logic used to justify this travesty.
I'm still waiting for the ACLU to decide if this attack on religious freedom, unlawful search and seizure, ignoring habeus corpus and innocent until proven guilty is more important than keeping Bibles 500 feet away from Texas schools.

First Waco and Now FLDS. Sounds like Texans just like to charge into things with their guns blazing, act first then ask questions later. Yeah, Lets just take the kids away from all Americans, get them in a foster home and then afterwards find out who really misses their parents vs. who felt like they were abused! That makes Sense! Who would not want to have their kids participate in this great test to make sure we are all perfect parents according to the standards of a few? Better yet, lets just do that with the Judges and law enforcement in Texas and then see if they still think they acted prudently in this blatant attack against Freedom, due process and parents rights.

I have no problem with them going after a couple bad apples when evidence has presented itself first; I do have a problem with them assuming an entire group of people is all the same and that nobody deserves to raise their own children without even asking any questions first. What happened about innocent until proven guilty? Perhaps Texans can start their own country where they abolish freedom & the bill of rights, but this should not go on while they are still part of the United States of AMERICA!

The government is the biggest abuser of children. Do they really think the MOTHERS were abusing the children? I think not. Comments like 'don't mess with Texas' just show what kind of arrogance is involved here.

Until recently you could get married in Texas, with parental consent, from age 14. Now it's been bumped up to 16. That'd imply that possibly no underage girls were married.

IMO polygamy should not be against the law - it's crazy that you can sleep with as many people as you want but if you marry them then it's a crime. Maybe we should start arresting people who have affairs or pre-msrital sex. How can they even claim any of these people are polygamists if they're not legally married to more than one person? Saying you are married does not make you married in fact. We never hear about any other groups that practice polygamy but the LDS are perfectly fine targets.

It seems highly unlikely that all of these children were abused and the evidence seems altogether weak. Do they even know the original complaint was authentic? This seems like religious persecution to me. If my neighbor abuses his children, and we live in the same apartment complex and go to the same church, will you also take my children? This entire situation is wrong. At least it wasn't quite another Waco.

I wonder if the same people that are so pleased with the actions of the Texas authorities would be as pleased with them if the raids were done on suspected abortionist offices in an effort to find underage girls that have had abortions. The ACLU would be screaming bloody murder, for sure, even though the evidence would show those girls would have suffered rape and abuse under the law. There is some easy pickings for you, Ms. Meisner. The proof is in those doctors offices just waiting for you. Or do Texas doctors get special privacy rights that religious sects don't?

I will never move to Texas. They should be ashamed of themselves. Comparisions to Nazi's and sick communists are in order here.

I hope that every instance of Texas taking a child away from parents that weren't abusing them is legally returned to the state ten-fold. This is disgusting. Texas had better have some solid evidence for what they are doing, or it will futher entrench the state's ability to meddle in family affairs in every state. Remove abused children from abusive homes, yes. DO NOT take 416 children en masse away from otherwise loving parents - this is wrong, and I'm surprised there is not more public outcry. Let's identify children who have been abused and prosecute men who marry underage women. Leave everyone else alone.

No one is going to stick up for men who are guilty of the alleged abuses in this situation, if proven in a fair an unbiased trial. But consider the next group could be a different and larger group with ties to the Mormon religion, and soon "those crazy Mormons themselves" and then "kooky Christians and religious people" will have to worry about allegations being the only requirement for Gestapo like state agencies deciding lack of due process being applied to your group because many in the country consider you weird and heard of horrible things happening within your familes - you are a comparatively small group of people and not the majority so what rights will you have? All someone has to do is phone in an anonymous lie and have your children ripped away from you. Anyone who believes there was a correct principle in the American concept should take notice of this battle against all of our liberties. The concept of the General public believing this horrible Nazi spokewoman's woman's propaganda that the little cildren are so much happier and "Smiling" and "playing" now that they have had their ties severed with their parents is sickening.

I don't remember ever reading in the affidavit in support of the search warrant that there ever was an allegation that ALL of the children at the ranch had been abused or were in danger of abuse. Authorities would only come that conclusion if their intent all along was to completely disband this religious group and drive it out of TX. And for those who claim that since the parents were polygamists and were committing a crime and so were unfit to parent these chilren, I would ask you to find how many children are removed from their parents' custody simply because a parent commits a crime? People shoplift, they don't lose children. People get DUIs but don't lose their children. People steal, embezzle, assault each other, take drugs, and even sell themselves as prostitutes without states taking away their children. Is polygamy, in and of itself, a greater danger to a child than these crimes? TX, in its evangelical excesses, apparently thinks so. I don't condone polygamy, but to round up ALL the children based on one allegation by an anonymous caller and an informant who never witnesses underage abuse is extreme even for TX.

How would you feel if someone came into your small community and took all the children, young, old, based on a phone call from who knows where.

I hope this doesn't turn into an ever escalating witch-hunt....with children & families being the sacrifice for government agencies trying to cover their own rear ends.

Obviously Marleigh Meisner's top priority is to act as an apologist for the State of Texas, rather than an advocate for the best interests of children.

Interesting attempts to make parallels between priest abuses and this case in Texas. They are about as similar as a frog and a case of freshly poured wet cement.

Catholic priests, and other religious leaders including Mormons, are not perfect. Some commit crimes against society (child abuse, etc.). They get reported, get caught, have a trial, and those that are guilty get punished.

In Texas, we do not know the extent of the crimes committed by old guys, etc. We have had a complaint so we have to react. By law, we must protect those who cannot protect themselves. Reaction is by law, not by choice.

Cults like this one do not have a good track record of obeying laws against child abuse, etc. etc.

You can compare the Catholic/Mormon/Protestant leaders abuses and the Texas case, but you would be wrong. Frogs vs. wet cement.

The Shadow Knows.

"We have a saying here: 'Don't mess with Texas.' I'm going to change it up and say, 'Don't mess with the children of Texas".

And to Texas I would say, "Don't mess with the U.S. Constitution!"

The only verifiable abuse in this case has been by the State of Texas. This is unconscionable. How can you haul off 500 people based on a single call of abuse by one person? This isn't about child abuse, it's about the abuse of power--by the state of Texas. If this action is upheld by the courts; none of us are safe.

However, I think if this ever gets to the U.S. supreme court, they will strike it down in an instant. There is no constitutional justification for such actions.

Using the same logic that Texas officials use I propose that we remove the children of all muslim families. They practice polygamy and arrange for young girls to marry older men. You better be prepared for the consequences if you try that!

To Tragic:

Just because some of them will return to their roots when they are "of age", does NOT mean there is no obligation to change the lives of a few. An attempt MUST be made! Stats also show that abused spouses will return MOST of the time. The attempt MUST be made!

To Eye Dee Ten Tee:

Go right ahead and sit on your "aching butt" and watch this unfold! The Catholics don't have a compound where numerous children are being kept and brainwashed that the abuse they are experiencing is o.k. and the norm. It is unfortunate that all the children need to go through this. However, there is NO other way to know which ones have been abused (and that doesn't even begin to prove which ones are at risk when they get older).
Oh, and there is a reason the ACLU has NOT stepped up in the name of "religious freedom"...they recognize that religious freedoms vs. abuse is out of their area and VERY different. The state of Texas obviously has evidence to back up their concerns!

Tragic you stated they should only deal with the ones that have been abused. That is what CPS is trying to determine. This takes time. And you need to wake up if you think a few were molested but not all. If they will molest one they will molest all!
And the age of the mothers is very questionable. You can read the citation on the Eldorado Success website and you will see about 75% would not give their birthdates. In order to get the facts you must separate the kids from the coaches. 6 women were brave enough to ask to be taken to a shelter and not back to the ranch. Why? Look at the middle and last names of the kids. I think you will notice the same names appear alot. That is why there are more cases of fumarase deficiency in the FLDS than the rest of the World. Inbreeding! Read about Fumarase if you don't know what it is. Utah and Arizona turned a blind eye for a 100 years. TEXAS WILL NOT! Go Texas! Don't mess with kids in Texas!!

There sure is a lot of love for these FLDS folk, considering that the official position is that they don't have anything to do with the rest of you. And by the way, don't mess with Texas.

The heavy-hand of government at work. Overkill if you ask me--Don't they also say everything is bigger in Texas? The State of Texas had one purported case on its hands but acted against 400+ children and their mothers and families while it was entirely possible to first adequately investigate, bring charges and isolate those individuals involved; instead, Texas went gangbusters like Janet Reno did Waco.

The children are wards of the state now. Most of the parents will be jailed on trumped up charges after the apparatchiks coerce testimony from a bunch of scared, confused kids.

The state obviously intends to build their case after the fact.

I'd mention the Constitution but everybody would just laugh. These characters can do whatever they want, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I suppose we should be grateful they didn't get everybody killed this time, though that has more to do with the restraint of the church members. The state showed up with SWAT teams and armored vehicles, obviously ready and willing to kill anyone who got in their way.

I just don't understand this. So the older men in this sect are marrying young girls.... Why is Texas not going after them? Why punish the innocent children and their mothers, who themselves may have been child brides? That this is happening in America scares the living daylights out of me.

Amen you compared this to Waco. Waco raid was carried out by the ATF under control of Janet Reno and the Federal Government. It had nothing to do With Texas except like the perverts David Koresh decided to build in Texas.

I can't wait to see the State's argument as why the 2 dozen boys removed to foster homes are at risk. I think it goes like this: "These boys are children of parents whose religious beliefs allow marriage of girls under the age of legal consent". "Its all a patern of abuse, a culture of abuse"

The criminalization of religious beliefs as opposed to the criminaliztion of certain behavior is the focus/goal of the CPS case. Regardless of what a religion sanctions (be it snake handling or underage marriage), being a member of that religion is no basis for establishing parental unfitness absence evidence the parent practices such behavior with the child in question.

If an immigrant group from Africa has religious or cultural beliefs which encourage female circumcision, membership in that religion is no basis to remove the immigrants' minor female children absent proof the parent intends to practice it upon that child, and is no basis to remove minor male children even if the same parents subject their minor female children to the practice.

But there I go trying to apply logic, common sense and that legal education to CPS and Texas, and I should know better.

This must be the Texas way of handling things. Didn't President Bush come from Texas? I feel for the children. I strongly feel that something needed to be done but this is a big move on the part of CPS Texas and I feel they should have handled it differently, one case at a time not all countries,I mean all households, at once.

It will be most interesting to see how many of the loving fathers will step forward to ID their children.

"The children are happy." Perhaps they are doing OK at the moment, but this case is more complicated than appears. Although children of drug addicts and alcoholics have connections with their parents, and issues to overcome, they still love their parents.

You don't just take children out of the home, slap them into another environment and assume they are OK. I think there will be some huge repercussions down the road from this mass taking of children out of their homes. Does the State expect to reprogram these kids? Where is the 16-year old girl who phoned? How do we know she is a reliable source? Abuse should be stopped, but the reprogramming will be more difficult than the State thinks.
This stormtrooper method will not bode well for Texas in the future.

I support this movement wholeheartedly, dispite the downfalls the action may be facing.

FLDS is a serverely rooted cult that obstructs the American views of justice-- giving a child, and women in general, a voice. You could plainly see that from the television interviews with live FLDS mothers. No one would come forward if Texas officials hadn't of taken action.

I just hope the poor children who were affected have the courage to step forward and have themselves liberated for good. That would make the CPS's job much easier. . . not that this kind of emotional toll is easy to deal with anyway.

Just like illegal immigrants, these people are breaking the law.
In a law-of-the-land society somebody always has to be punished.
It's the neoconservative credo.

fyi, the dcfs in utah uses the exact same tactics. they take innocent children to build cases against innocent parents. just not 416 at a time. :>

I imagine the men of FLDS compound are only glad that they are in Texas and not Louisiana as that is the only state that has 2 men on death row for Child rape. Both the adult men and adult women in this complex are guilty of child abuse. Obviously if you have a 13 year old daughter who is consigned into marrying an older man, both the older man and the mother and father of the child are participants in child abuse. Not to mention the entire society there approves and condones of this practice. If I know my next door neighbor is sleeping with a 13 year old girl, and I don't call it in to the police, discuss it as a good thing I want my own daughter to do in the future, even though I haven't done it, my kids deserve to be taken from me before I get the chance... Save the children!

The FLDS culture is inherently harmful to the children. It is a closed society where the children are at the complete mercy of the adults with no interaction with the outside world. The
"rulers" are predatory men determined to have multiple wives. They can't procure women from outside so turn to the female children born into the group (at a nauseatingly early age) Young males that will become a threat of competition for the available females are cast out. The adults who may not be active participants in the abuse are willing complicent or intimidated or brainwashed and will not or can not protect their own children.

Life as it exist in the FLDS compound
IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE.

If they have not been abused yet
IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THEY WILL BE.

These childrens' "families" are unwilling or emotionally unable to protect the children. They think their sick lifestyle is normal and healthy.

Your sympathy for the adults is misplaced and perverse. Think about the children instead of the fake coached "sobbing" (so-called) mothers.

It's long past do, lets do the exact same thing as
Texas at Hilldale & Colorado city. What a shame
Utah won't at least clean up Hilldale.plus the
new compounds in Mona, and Loa...

Since children have been taken from the mothers, are we to assume all these mothers sexually abused the children taken into custody?

According to Texas and the media it was the men involved in the sexual abusing underaged girls. Instead Texas arrested the children and mothers. Who is being abused here?

The difference here is that this FLDS community is teaching this! They are telling these girls that their only way to escape eternal damnation is to participate in polygamous marriage!

Texas taxpayers take note - these lawyers are going to bleed your state coffers dry over a period of many years. The FLDS will grow fat from the proceeds.

The state authorities, though their intentions may have been good (and this is debatable), will learn that they lack the power to discard rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

Slogans like "Don't mess with Texas" remind me of the attitude of President Bush when he invaded Iraq. The fallout was severe for both sides. The same thing is going to happen here. The state and CPS is going to have egg on their face. To lie to the mothers to trick them to go on to another bus is entirely wrong. Shame on Texas CPS.

Change the story slightly and reevaluate your stance on this issue.

A group of Texas officials raid a poor African-American neighborhood and remove several sexually active and abused woman and girls. Then the abused victims are locked away in an abandoned military base and cut off from everyone so layers and doctors can interrogate them.

Don’t be deceived, Texas has their share of abuse victims. Why have they singled out this group?

Who would standup for these fictitious victims and why are they not heard now? Help those in need, but safeguard the victim’s dignity and rights.

Why are you so intent on ignoring the law and letting these people break it all they want?

tragic, I would urge you to go to YouTube.com and watch the video called "Banking on Heaven" It's by an ex member of the FLDS group. Disturbing.

DCFS needs massive oversight and specific standards to limit their ability to run amok, we need laws immediately to protect us from this abusive organization. Our children are our children they should not be able to be seized just because some wacked out bigot thinks that we are lousy parents, especially on trumped up charges. This is the greatest miscarriage of justice in American history.
I WILL NEVER SET FOOT IN TEXAS!!!

Until all the facts in the case are laid out and we know the truth in this matter, I am reserving judgment on which side to take up. However, right now it does look like the state went a bit too far in trying to determine if there was any wrongdoing on the compound. So far it seems that every time there is some compound with people in it, the State of Texas goes a bit too far. They did have other options, they simply choose not to use them. Now, it is up to the courts to determine facts and for us to pray for all those involved.

Texas has failed miserably in its handling of this situation. All these kids at least have mothers who love them and will take care of them. They have made this entire group guilty over the actions of one man, who wasn't even in the same state when the allegations were made.

The children and women were not arrested, they were placed in safe custody, just as any suspected abuse victims might be. So many of you keep comparing this to Nazi Germany... don't forget that the Nazis also laid claims to the concept of selective breeding to create a master race. How is FLDS any different than that?

Let's also mention that these innocent young girls in "spiritual" marriages have no legal rights as spouses, so in addition to being held captive by older men, they have no legal recourse when they are abused. And their young male peers are often forced out of the community when the older men perceive them becoming threats--THAT's why they were placed in foster care, to prevent them from being abandoned later.

What would you rather have: the state rescuing your children from this kind of life, or the church coming into your home and taking your 12 or 13 year old daughter to live with some 60 year old man as his fifth or sixth "wife"? Do you really feel this is the best environment in which to raise a child? I feel sorry for you.

What a hypocritical nation! By the same measure of abuse the schools all across the country are abusing the children! Drugs, unmarried sex, abortion, perversion, extreme styles, immodesty, illigitimate babies, and so forth, is spread around by means of, and in, the public schools, including in Texas. It's also allowed to be taught to the children on TV and in movies by means of Hollywood, which has been allowed to "police" itself. What a messed up people America has become!

From the information we're getting, it doesn't sound like there is a strong case...They're not disclosing all the facts, of course. If they have, the law-enforcement is in deep yogurt...