This is just wrong!!!!! Now they are having to propose breaking up families in order to get the right to their children back. Our family breakup in society is a big enough problem. Get these folks home and leave them alone!!!!! Respect their rights when you expect yours to be respected. God said do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. This is stupid and wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am pleasantly surprised to hear that FLDS mothers might be willing to get their own apartments and obtain counseling to get their children back. A safety plan would be a good solution for everyone concerned, especially the children. Foster care would be a terrible alternative, as these kids have led very sheltered lives.

One of the problems that I do foresee would be that if the mothers obtained restraining orders against the husbands, they would never report any violations. The law pretty much leaves it to the one seeking the order to follow-up by reporting violations to authorities.

I still think that the State will require genetic testing in order to place children back with the appropriate biological mother---and that in itself might be very revealing.

A safety plan is a good option, and one that is certainly worthy of discussion. I hope CPS’s Angie Voss gets off the high horse and opens a dialogue on the possibility.

IN TEAXS IT WAS LEGAL TO MARRY AT THE AGE OF 14 UNTIL 2005 WHEN THE LEGAL AGE WAS CHANGED TO 16 TWO YEARS AFTER THE CHURCH GROUP MOVED TO THE COMPOUND.

This isn't wrong - it is SO SO SO right. Have you seen the clip on CNN about water boarding babies???? These evil people should never get their children back .... unless they REALLY, REALLY prove they have left this cult behind them. And only then with periodic supervision and mandatory integration into society. Revolting, disgusting, evil. What kind of mother refuses to identify her own children? That is abandonment. What kind of mother stands by when her daughters and sons are abused? I swear, if my husband laid a hand on my kids we wouldn't be here the next day. And any woman who isn't strong enough to do that should lose her children. Go TEXAS! You will forever have my unending applause!

"I am pleasantly surprised to hear that FLDS mothers might be willing..."

To them this is a hostage situation. Just like most parents, they will say and do anything demanded by the hostage taker to protect their children and get them out of harm's way.

They must be careful, however, to not make desperate promises that they can't keep. CPS isn't going to give the children back without some very onerous strings attached. Strings that will chafe more and more over time.

COMPADDION, where did you get your information? It has been illegal for someone in Texas to marry under the age of 17 for decades. In fact, it is rape if a man has sex with a girl who is under 17 years of age unless he himself is within two years of her age. If the allegations are true, then these so called men have committed rape. That is the law in Texas stupid.

without their kids, they will not be able to collect
all those nice welfare checks to pass along to the prophet so they can buy more land to build on.

lets stop this "bleeding the beast"
lets incarcerate the pedophiles who milk the state

Sandy & Family, you need to read the BIBLE so you find out why your are wrong.

!!!!!Parents!!!!!
You can have your CHILD stolen by the CPS CHILD THEFT RING.
They get $4000.00 for every child they steal.
A very good example:
The Thugs in the State of Missouri Child Theft Ring and St. Louis County Courts stole the youngest daughter away from a mother.
The Thugs in the Missouri Court System and the Missouri Branch of the CPS Child Theft Ring said that because the mother rocked her daughter to sleep in a rocking chair , there was no bond between the mother and child. The State of Missouri had stolen the child away and would not return her for two years then said because the Mother and child had been separated for two years the bond between the mother and child had been severed.
shreddedsociety(dot)com

Just because it WAS legal to wed at 14 and now IS legal to wed at 16 does not make it morally or ethically right to do so.

The part of the human brain that governs reason starts developing in our teens and continues on until our twenties. That's why teenagers are such a challenge. Not to mention that the female body is not fully developed at 14 or 16 either.

What makes anyone think that getting married at that age or having children at that age A GOOD IDEA?

I don't have any answers for the FLDS situation except serious long term counseling for all concerned. Jail time for the men comes to mind too...they knew they were up to no good, treating their women and children as objects to be hidden away from society and abused...castration for the men comes to mind too.

According to Texas state statistics in the year 2001- 53,856 babies were born to girls under the age of 19. And 10% of 15-16 year olds had been or were pregent. Did the state taken custody of all of these girls and their siblings along with all the others since 2001? Or are they just going after the FLDS people because they are different?

Texas has broken the laws by which our Constitution was formed. Anyone can make a call and with no real evidence an entire community has it's children taken away, wholesale. People get all emotional and imaginative about what they think is going and gone on. You have to prove guilt. If a law is broken then due process should take place. Texas should be on trial for such criminal actions. If my neighbor abuses his daughter should the police come in and arrest my whole neighborhood and take our children because I lived in the same one as the perpetrator? If a mormon or Jew or Catholic had a member that did something wrong, should all the rest of the people their children taken away, and only on accusation from who know who? They are acting on assumption and not by the laws of our own land. Even a police officer should abide by the laws he enforces. This is about our rights as a nation not about the FLDS people. You can't take someone's children from them because they might abuse them someday even though they haven't yet.

This is not about polygamy. It is about child rape and abandonment. Young girls are bread and brainwashed into accepting sex from older men. Boys at ages of 10 to 12 are used for unlawful cheap forced labor, most to be thrown out by their parents when they are excommunicated at age 15 and 16. The boys crimes maybe to flirt with an girl or breaking one of the cults rules. The older men have to kick out the young boys to remove any competition to their raping the young girls. This cult destroys all, young girls, boys, and young mothers. The only ones gaining are the "religious elder" of the FLDS.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have settled lawsuits alleging church policies protected pedophile men who sexually abused children for many years.
JW Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States

Jehovah's Witnesses pedophile cover up problem at a glance:
It's the WAY that the Watchtower's protocol for (non) handling of Criminal Pedophilia that is the root of this evil.

Recent Watchtower 'damage control' in house memos on 'correcting' past cover ups and years of past stone walling/foot dragging does not undo decades of child abuse damage.

"Spiritual" marriages aren't recognized or legal in the state of Texas; especially if the man is already married.

The house of cards that the FLDS leaders have built is beginning to fall apart.

You said nothing about the rights of the children.

Are children simply property that parents can give away to anyone they choose?

Or do children also have rights?

LetUsReason
Thank you so much for having a decant grasp of reality. I wish people would use their comon senses instead of acting on every feeling or emotion that pops up with in themselves.
These FLDS people are a step back in time. I suggest people take a tour through their family tree history and they would not have to go far to find that older men marrying young ladies was common practice. I think the men that founded and built the nation were respectable and sober minded men. Now these FLDS people have preserved a culture more like our ancesters had. They'er not wrong . They are just different. ...........LEAVE THEM ALONE.

Who is worthy to judge these people...........not you.

There is a difference here between minors who become pregnant and girls who are forced into sex and childbearing by religious leaders. That is the issue, not the religion. If it was just a group of old men solicting sex from little girls, I'll bet you would be all for this raid. My great-great grandmother wass married of as the second wife at the age of 14 to a man nearly 50. She never recoverd from the trauma and the event reverberates through our family to this day. She had no choice and neither do these girls, even though they will swear to high heaven that they are given a free will choice. I hope these "men" get what is coming to them---and it's been a long time coming.

As said earlier, the issue isn't about the group but about what is going on inside the compound. If they want to stick to their beliefs and way of life, they have that right ~ give it to them! But when we learn that someone may be being abused, raped, ect, then it is in our hands to do something about it and not stand back and let them do their thing! Earlier someone said to treat them as we want to be treated....I agree. If I were a kid being abused, wouldn't I want someone to step in and be my advocate! Let people do their own thing ~ they have their rights ~ until they start hurting someone else and so violating that person's rights. It makes me sick. IT IS WRONG!

Of course children have rights. Its Americans that attempt to exercise freedom of association and religious belief that have no rights. If the authorities can arrest Jeffs and the "groom" of the 14 yr old he married off to the older groom, one would think Texas would be capable of doing the same thing - arresting the guilty rather depriving 416 kids of their liberty and parents without proof that their parents would give consent to an unlawful marriage.

It appears we have "evidence" by way of a caseworker's opinion that certain girls appear under 18 and to be pregnant or to have had children below age 18. I continue to wait for testimony that they have anyone below 16, and evidence the pregnancy occured in the jurisdiction, and evidence that the father was over 18. Innuendo, speculation, and generalization cannot become the standard for depriving Americans of their constitutional rights, even American children.

One report sumarized the State's expert psychologist's testimony as "The state child-welfare agency needs some time to further investigate the various situations of all the families involved."

The State should have done that, for each American, before deeming them guilty by association.

Give me a "T" for Texas.

One way to help these kids is to remove the parents from the compound and bring in adults who are responsible and keep the children there. When a couple divorces, the custodial parent will usually get the home, so the child can have that security, why not do it here, or ban the men from being there and just have the mothers raise their children. In all reality, there is not a simple solution, but these men who think they have the rights to invade these children and women need to be deprogrammed and removed from these children for good and if the mothers will not protect their children, they too need to be removed. One big problem, I don't think the children really know who their parents are and I don't think the parents know who their children are, pretty sick.

Girls in the Texas polygamous sect enter into underage marriages without resistance because they are ruthlessly indoctrinated from birth to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation.

The old patriarchs know how easy it is to manipulate little girls.

Throw the book at them!

The religion expert, who has extensively studied FLDS sects and the LDS Church, testified that Jeffs is "somewhat indifferent" to the age of women as to when they marry. Instead, Jeffs relies on "when they have reached adult status in the community."

Now that is an interesting thought worth examining.
A young girl grows up within a community . At what age might she develop mentally and emotionally to gain the status of adult within the community? That is she is now recognized in the community as having the attributes of adulthood. What age would that be and how would it compare to young girls outside?
Clearly Warren Jeffs is NOT FIT to decide such things. Perhaps when a girl has been recognized as adult within the community and demonstrated her growing maturity for a couple years after that, then perhaps she is ready for marriage and children of her own. But I still think 14 is really rushing things. 16 seems more reasonable. Some of our girls are not ready at 18 and you know it. I suspect these girls are like mothers to the other siblings long before they turn 16 anyway.

Heres a great big T for Texas
And God bless Texas and law enforcement for stepping up to the plate to bat... maybe law enforcement will be coming soon to a town near you!!!
Watch for it's ratings.

Lori,
I also had a Mormon ancestor who went through the same things as your ancestor. I cannot gather where anyone thinks a woman doesn't suffer in polygamy. What a bunch of sick-self-centered-fools in this religion. I cannot understand how anyone who professes to believe in God thinks this is good for a woman, because God said so. Although, my God says differently. I do not believe any of these deceitful lies in these sick posts. There are some MIGHTY sick men in this world. I also don't believe any woman will have to suffer in the eternities for all eternity in the same matter. It just wont happen. Guys, GET A BRAIN! Maybe God will grant you one if you ask.

The Bible reads that you are to have one wife/husband. I do believe that some of the mothers are to scared to speak up. Its really sad to see the childern away from family but, what if these kids are being harmed? I hope that thier is someone in the court system that is strong enough to make the right thing happen here. I have to say I would not condone my child to marry a man that is grown, thats just very SICK. To the women of thi place stand up if your being harmed think about you little ones. I will continue to pray for the right person to be put in charge of these childern.
THE BIBLE SAID" CHILDERN ARE THE APPLE OF HIS EYE.
I hope for the best. To America Lets Pray...........

Go Texas!!!

But would like to know what took you so long.

It was legal until September 2005 for a 14 year old to marry in Texas, with parental consent. There was no span requirement.
Texas changed the law to 16 in 2005 specifically because the FLDS moved to Texas. (that is documented)
It is now legal to marry in Texas at 16 with parental consent.
If you don't like the law, then change it. But as long as these are the laws or these were the laws, the FLDS were living within the laws.

I personally think 21 should be the legal age to marry, buy alcohol, or drive a car.

I have no particular affection or respect for the FLDS but, does anyone else get the chills from this invasion by the State? This move, though appearing "right" on so many levels, may come home to haunt all religions as the voracious and insatiable bear, having entered one tent now desires to enter all.

Judge has ordered that STATE keeps them as per CNN Headline news!

i personally believe that the court will come up with a fair decision, Texas is a fair-law upholding state and will do the right thing! Opinions are like noses: Everyone has their own. Some of them pretty weird though.

I am amazed over and over to see comments where the Texas authorities are praised and the people who would force FLDS girls into marriage are condemned.

With their haste to "act" and their failure to follow basic legal rules for search warrants and evidence collection, Texas has created a situation where the men responsible for this situation will never be jailed.

Yes, Texas has removed children from what Texas deems to be a bad situation but.... What about the next batch of children these men gain access to? What about the rights of the mothers and children who broke no law and did nothing wrong?

The reason so many FLDS moved to Texas was because Arizona and Utah prosecuters were carefully building cases and jailing the men in control, the men making decisions, the men who were the worst of the worst.

Texas has created a situation where children will be raised by foster families and evil men will find new victims.

About the only people who are proven to be heros in all this are the prosecuters in Utah and Arizona who caused so many of the FLDS to flee to Texas.

For all you constitutional appealants. Do us a favor and read the majority opinion in dept of human resources v Smith(1990). Justice Scalia wrote the opinion. It is governing precedent right now regarding the establishment clause, freedom of religion, and governmental interest.

I think it will go a long way toward clearing up some erroneous opinions of what exactly freedom of religion is and the limits on that freedom.

The FLDS are unfortunately on the wrong side of what religious freedom allows

To Grizzly out come:
You ask does anyone get the chills from this invasion by the state ??? I get the chills from seeing the way these people lived inside of this compound and the abuse.
To welivfee: FLDS preserved a culture like our ancestors !!! Maybe if you have an ancestor that is a member of the FLDS,these are so called spiritual marriages not legal marriages and forced marriages/unions by brainwashed people upon brainwashed people. There is nothing free about this. There is NO excuse for this abuse .
Thank God Texas moved upon this mess and thank God the Judge has ruled that the children are still to be in the states custody for now and hopefully forever.
My ancestors never participated in something like this and never booted the young men out on the street and totally abandoned the young men.

All of you sit there, in your safe little houses, surrounded by your loving families. Sure you can agree with what has happened because it didn't happen to you. Now you will see true suffering! What has been done is an atrocity to the American people and many of you are to puffed up in your critical opinion of the FLDS to recognize it as such. But, watch out...cause you're next!!!

Thank you Texas! I thought it was so funny when mothers got up and named their kids, then lawyers got up and said that wasn't the money they talked to with the named child. They keep changing births, ages, and who each child belongs to.

I like that judge!

'mother' not money.

While I understand that some FLDS members believe that their rights have been trampled, the fact of the matter is they are breaking the law. It is against the law to marry more than one woman as it is forcing a child to have sex in or out of marriage. Anyone who is married to more than woman if by personal preference or royal/spiritual decree, is still breaking the law.

Raising a child in an environment where disregarding the law is perfectly acceptable if you FEEL right about it (due to nature or nurture), forcing a child into marriage, forcing child bearing, and facilitating statutory rape completely fall into the area okay for stepping into by the state authorities. While living an old world lifestyle, marrying by choice (I mean real choice- not because you fear damnation or the like) at a young age, bearing children while in your teens, etc. are arguably not healthy, they, in most cases, are not against the law.

Lets try to focus on the difference between legally and (feeling) morally wrong and not get caught up in the emotions of the situation.

Appaled,
It's not going to happen in my house because I do not live like the FLDS.
I have 4 children and I have been married to the same woman ( only 1) for 28 years.My wife is 47 and I am 50.I do not have a thing to worry about.

Speculation----but no evidence. Return the children to their Mothers! If an individual has commited a crime then the individual should be punished ----but not the group. If they have evidence ---then arrest someone. Does this Judge not believe in the rights of the individual?

The only way these children should ever return to this compound would be if the judge declares waterboarding and "breaking" babies is A-OK, and that the rape of minors is condoned. What do you think the chances would be of these two things happening? These sobbing mothers "give away" their babies for waterboarding and their daughters to be raped, very disingenuous.

Well, I guess Judge Walther won't need to worry about her re-election campaign now.

For once in this country the correct action is being taken to correct a problem. No, this is not "Big Brother" trampling your civil rights. When you break the law you have already forfeited your civil rights. I think the State of Texas is correct to order DNA testing and once and for all determine who the parents are of all of these children. This is warranted due to the fact that the mothers and children alike are evassive in their answers and never answer direct questions. Until this group of people can satnd up and answer a direct question there is probable cause to keep the children. Again, we are only seeing the tip of the iceburg.

I have seen FLDS mothers and fathers with their children. They are some of the most loving and kind parents in the USA. The Children are beautiful and happy. I experienced seeing them in resturants and parks in St. George, Utah. The children are well educated for their ages.

The children will do much better living with their mothers than they could ever do in a foster care situation.

It is good that they have been taught to be modest in their dress, and that the latest fashions are not the best.

Why is this judge and CPA of Texas trying to distroy these good children and their mothers?

I am not a member of their church. But I am a grandfather and I have cried in my heart ever since this religious persecution began. I know how much these parents love their children and I know how much I love mine.

I do not believe that the State of Texas has any evidence that a girl has hurt by a man. I believe that this was planned out in order to bring about cultural genocide and distroy a people.

I don't think Judge Walther was worried about it anyway...

To Professor H :

This has nothing to do with RELIGOUS PERSECUTION,
it is about a closed society that routinely practices abuse both sexually and physically and mentally. I love my children and I love my children enough I would NEVER want them to be stuck in a sect like this.
The state of Texas acted upon a phone call and discovered that there was a lot more going on tin this compund than one abuse.
The children need to be away from the parents so the case workers and social workers can talk to these kids and hopefully in time they will open up and the FDLS will be exposed to what they truly are an abusive and controlling sect that abuses its members on daily basis.
There are others who have escaped this sect and are now speaking on the news programs about what life really was like behind the walls.
My Church would never condone the way of life these people in this compound has been abused and I do not have to worry about the state taking my children away or kicking the doors in on my Church.

To Good Things:
This has everything to do with religous persecution.

There has been a lot of noise and accusation about abuse at YFZ Ranch but NO evidence other than the fact that these people live differently for RELIGOUS reasons.

I just hope all you religous bigots are the next ones to have your rights trampled on. You are blinded by your bigoted hypocrisy.

I agree the FLDS are weird, but that doesn't justify the way they are being treated.