The confusion the Texas (and all) LDS are dealing with is a confusion in their own minds.

It is a profound confusion manifest in such absolutely untrue statements as, “While the FLDS Church is not connected in any way to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…”

The LDS Church IS ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED with the FLDS Church in very important ways.

First is the connection LDS should feel for their fellowman. FLDS members are fellow human beings and should be treated with dignity and respect, not dehumanized, demonized, and marginalized, as the LDS are trying to do in their efforts to distance themselves from the FLDS.

FLDS members are religious believers in God, just like the LDS. They are believers in the sanctity of marriage and family, just like the LDS. They are believers in eternal marriage (the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage), just like the LDS. They are believers in the modern revelations of the Restoration (Book-of-Mormon, D&C, etc.), brought about by Joseph Smith, just like the LDS.

The FLDS are closer brothers/sisters to the LDS than any other religion. Shame on the LDS for forgetting that by abandoning and condemning them in time of need.

we need to stop this stuff saying we, the LDS church are not in any way connected. In the same way the Nephites were connected to the Lamanites, we are conected to these people as well. In our Articles of faith it says we obey the law, yet our LDS dominated legislature ha chosen to ignore the fact that this (polygamy) illegal activity was going on,. Shame on us.

Just by the fact the guy yelled out compund he knew the difference. If he's that stupid why waste time worrying about it.

We do marry young here in Utah, like 18-19 yo for women. Perhaps if we weren't so odd to the outside world, we wouldn't be lumped with the FLDS.

Most people know Utah is full of Mormons and has polygamists. Most people don't or won't bother to distinguish between the two.
LDS outside Utah bear the brunt of the hostility. Only Utah can deal with the root problem.

Religious bigotry and ignorance are both thriving in our country. The recent campaign by Governor Rommney exposed an underbelly of these problems, which in 21st century America I would have hoped was better, but seemingly is worse. This tragic situation in Texas , although not related to the L.D.S. Church, will only give those both in the secular and religious communities an opportunity to rant and rave about the Gospel and the truth it has restored. They will do as they will and at their own risk. My only hope is that the sweet spirit of love and forgiveness of our Savior will continue to be spread by His Church to all the people of the World, and I know that it will.

In the event that you are actually wondering why the LDS and FLDS are so easily confused, just look at some of the posts on D.N. It seems that many, many LDS do not understand that Freedom of Religion granted in the Constititution does not protect one from arrest when one has committed criminal offenses. One cannot withhold insulin from a diabetic minor without suffering criminal neglect and murder charges. One cannot murder a person so that another may practice the right to fresh blood as sacrament in the Church of the Holy Vampire. One cannot sacrifice ones own child on an altar (even if God commands it) or allow for rape simply because the church mandates it as sacred. One cannot abandon a minor son because he is a threat to the men in the community. It is that community culpability that removed those children from all parents since it is as a community that the rape and abandonment occurred. While the LDS church tries to separate themselves from the FLDS the people within the Church seem to be doing the opposite in defending crimes as a "Constitutional Right." They aren't.

Both LDS and FLDS teach from the Book of Mormon so there is a huge connection.

LDS Social Services need to jump in and help fix this mess. The LDS need to help these FLDS. The Church will help everyone else but those in the backyard. Only reason the the Muslims get aid is for political advantage. Being a member for 37 years I am ashamed of leadership. You let the Baptists clean this up for you.

BWinslow: Where does this statement come from in your article and what does it have to do with anything? "The local Baptist congregations have contracts to provide relief services in disaster situations."

More ridiculous comments from uninformed people.

The LDS Church has NOTHING to do with the FLDS Church. Members who practice polygamy or repeatedly teach people that polygamy is a modern practice (after being warned not to do so) are excommunicated. But the raid in Texas wasn't about adult polygamy. The Texas officials said the wiveS could return to their husbnds - the issue is child abuse.

The average marrying age in the LDS Church is around 23 years old and 60% of LDS members have some college experience.

The confusion about the two Churches is because of a biased media who want to purposely smear the Church to limit its influence and message.

If people want to argue that the FLDS and the LDS churches are the same, then by the same logic the "Christian" Church in Waco Texas that was raided in 1993 is the same as the First Baptist Church.

Quit complaining, would you people on this blog? Obviously you who have made comments on this blog are either not members or inactive who think they know alot. I'm getting quite tired of it. Let me explain something to you, the "Mormons" aren't mentioning they don't have common ground with the FLDS. They are saying to those who know nothing of the difference between "Mormons" and FLDS that we should not be identified as the same. There IS a difference. As you can tell from reading the article, people have ignorantly identified members and missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as FLDS. We belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not the FLDS.

What kind of back up can we LDS really give the FLDS though? I mean we have to fight to survive just as much as minority here. That said, I would prefer if some pronouncements were limited to simply saying we are not them anymore than Anglicans are Catholics. While I might like to see the Church reassert its legal argument that plural marriage is constitutionally protected, I'm not expecting it to happen anytime soon. At any rate, I hope more LDS speak up for the FLDS, in at least so much as they've been targeted and attacked by the government.

We are an LDS family in Texas. This event has shaken me to my very core. I can hardly believe that the state that I love and am proud to call home has taken these children from their families and the only way of life they have known. We homeschool our children and basically keep to ourselves in the commmunity that we live in, just like the FLDS families in San Angelo. Can the state come in and take my children if they want? I cannot imagine what these children and parents must be going through. What are these children being told? What type of homes will they be going to? How can we help them? We are not foster family, but I feel like I need to help these children in some way.

Maybe you guys in Utah marry that young, but Elder Cook said the average marrying age for LDS women is 23 years old.

Chill out dude.

Before I was baptized at age 29, I did not think the church was odd. But I know many who did, including my own mother. I have since come to realize people CHOOSE to think this because they know deep down inside that they should be living their lives differently but don't want to change. So what they adjust instead is their view of the Church that could lead them there.

I don't know what Utah you are living in, but the majority of women I know get married AFTER they are at least 20.

Are you neocon Mormons who bash the ACLU watching this news:

"SAN ANGELO, Texas (CNN) -- The Texas branch of the American Civil Liberties Union said it was concerned that the basic rights of the children and mothers connected to a Texas polygamist ranch were violated during a recent raid and custody hearing."

Or are you so blinded by your own biases that you will ignore it?

I think that what the LDS Church means is that they are in no way connected to the FLDS in terms of any form of relationship with the FLDS church. Obviously the LDS and FLDS do have some beliefs like eternal marraige and works for the dead in common, but the LDS Church in no way is connected to the FLDS. To some people there is no explaining this to, they will think what they want to think and hold there bigotry close to their hearts. Also, I'd be interested to know where people find the LDS Church demonizing men of the FLDS church. I've read the LDS Church's statements and nowhere do I find the LDS Church demonizing the FLDS Church.

To say that the FLDS are not Mormon is absurd. They believe in the same Restoration thru the Prophet Joseph Smith. The fact that they testify to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is basis enough to call them Mormons. LDS apologists deny FLDS the title of Mormon just like Evangelicals deny LDS the title of Christian.

"We do marry young here..." how is 18-19 young? As one from the "outside world" as you put it, Mormons are really not considered all that odd. In a post modernist society that embraces secularism, anyone who practices their religion devoutly will be considered an oddball. Or in the face of pockets of evangelicalism. For example, as a catholic in the deep south, I feel very much at odds with the vast evangelical majority here. But then again, I'm sure i would encounter the same feeling in Utah as well.

To Jake and db, no, sorry, the LDS Church IS NOT connected in any way to what is currently the FLDS church. THEY make that distinction as much as we do. You are splitting hairs. Your argument could follow that all people living on the same planet need the same sun and therefore should be connected to the same belief system and held accountable for the same actions.

FLDS, pure and simple, is the legacy of the mormon church. Deal with it.

What can the average guy do to keep people from associating these folks with us?

Catholics have different "sects" within the heading of the Catholic church and we call them sects.
1. Roman Catholic -by far the largest
2. Spanish Catholic
3. Orthodox – severed their ties with Rome in the 11th Century
4. Byzantine Catholics
5. Polish National Catholics
6. Old Catholics
7. Eastern Orthodox
8. White Robed Benedictine Network of Catholics –
guided by its own Bishop, follows the Vatican Council II
9. Lutheranism – still considered part of Catholicism in some articles
10. Universal Catholics
We follow the same basic belief system, so are therefore still a part of each other.

Baptists have different "sects" Southern Baptist, 1st Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Seventh day Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Conservative Baptist.

Americans understand the differences and the sameness of Mormons and Fundamentalist Mormons.

People do understand the difference because they have major differences within their own religions.

Anonymous-What do you mean by marrying young. 18 and 19 are legal ages for marriage and do not require parental consent. Members of the LDS faith follow Federal law and the laws of each state. The FLDS are being accused of older men marrying very young girls (14-15), NOT the LDS.

Reference Utah Law: The law states that marriage at the age of 18 years and above does not require parental consent. For those aged 16-17, parental consent is necessary. For those 15 years old, the following requirements must be met: Parental consent must be obtained. Approval from Juvenile Court is necessary. The court must conclude that the marriage is voluntary and in the best interests of the minor.

This is consistent with the laws of most other states.

Also, the above laws apply to couples, where both are underage, NOT marriage with a minor and the exceptions are principally designed for young unmarried couples who have children.

Bel: no, the state won't come in and take your children unless there is evidence of child molestation. That is the issue here; religion is not the issue; keeping to yourselves is not the issue.

"Can the state come in and take my children if they want?"

Yes they can if they receive strong evidence that repeated abuse or other illegal activities are occurring (i.e., if you are abusing your children). The FLDS children were taken away for many of the same reasons any other children are taken away from parents.

The only way the LDS can repudiate the FLDS is to repudiate Joseph Smith and Brigham Young who preached the polygamy and socialism that the FLDS practice.

The FLDS are more LDS than the LDS is.

The FLDS don't practice the word of wisdom.

So to those of you who think the LDS church is bound to the FLDS because of a "common link"... do you also think the good peaceful Muslims in this country need to reach out and embrace the radical muslim terrorists because they have a "common link"?

When something becomes twisted and perverted, it is no longer equal to the original...even IF it once had been or still has similar componants.

Once last try for those of you who are too blinded by your bigotry and hatred to think reasonably:

If I decided I liked a lot of what the Lutheran Church taught but didn't like a few of the key, fundamental parts, so I took their books and much of their doctrine and formed my own "Fundmental Lutheran Church"...would the Lutheran Church have to acknowlege MY breakoff as one of their own? Would they be responsible in anyway for the way I might twist and pervert their doctrines? Even if it looked similar from the outside?

I know, I know "but this is different" you say. (sigh)

Bel, your fears are well-founded. In Germany, the state is taking home-schooled children and putting them into foster care. A judge in California is attempting the same - although the ruling will likely be overturned.

The FLDS moved to Texas, partly because the age of consent in Texas was 14. The locals in Eldorado were worried about the FLDS taking over the county, so State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran sponsored a bill in 2005 that raised the legal age of consent to marry in Texas from 14 to 16. This was specifically targeted against the FLDS. Where is the ACLU, or do they only take on liberal causes?

It does not matter what religion you are in any State. The point is--America this taking children from there home because someone does not like there parents--IS WRONG!!! There are many abused kids in this country and around the world. I think it is wrong, but what kind of homes are you going to put them in--and for that matter what religion will you go after next? Ask yourself this question??? How would the Baptist or Catholics like your children taken away? Come on American's take a stand and fight for the freedoms your founding Father's died for or may be you don't care anymore. Sad..........

Bel - Good for you! Why not sign up to be a foster family. Texas resources are so short of people to be foster families.

I agree that everyone should be concerned for these children. Also, that the state could just walk in and take kids based on now supposedly false allegations of abuse.

As an LDS member, while I feel compassion for them in their situation and while I do feel somewhat of a familial bond with them, I am not going to own the decisions of the FLDS.

It is neither right nor reasonable that any LDS member should feel responsible for what has happened, or what may yet happen in this situation. Any helping hand or support the LDS church gives is not a debt we owe. We have no guilt to assuage.

My desire for them is that they may enjoy their Constitutional religious liberties within the confines of the law. If there are crimes committed, they will have to face them themselves. If they decide to marry underage girls in spite of the law, they will have to continue to do it in civil disobedience. They are big kids. They can own their own consequences.

We marry young in Utah?? I was 27 when I got married and my wife was 29. I can only think of one person that I know that got married under 20. To say it is typical to marry at 18-19 seems to be a stretch, sure there are a few.

"Both LDS and FLDS teach from the Book of Mormon so there is a huge connection".

If this is true, then any Satan Worshiper who refers to and/or teaches from the Bible is Christian.

NOT SO. Your logic is completely flawed.

It seems as if the news media and the "religious feel-good societies" of this country are always ready to pounce on the LDS Church like a cougar on to a baby lamb. The smart people (and there are way too few) will hear and become interested in finding out the truth about the church. The stupid and closed minded among us will never listen to the missionaries. They believe that they are "once saved, always saved" and no amount of logic or scriptural verses will alter their opinions. So our jobs as members is to inform and make people feel comfortable about the Gospel. We have no right to tear down their beliefs, but they also have no mandate to destroy ours. True education, taught by caring teachers who allow students to make up their own minds about such important issues as religion and politics are a NATIONAL TREASURE and should be sought out and honored.

Then the missionaries will get a fair chance to spread the Gospel to all who are able to hear it.

like a hoax phone call? I firmly believe that children must be protected, but if agencies can disrupt families on the basis of a hoax phone call, then "strong evidence of repeated abuse" is obviously not a prerequisite. I'm glad that the ACLU has decided to tackle this one.

Is strong evidence an anonymous phone call making a wild accusation?

Can the state of Texas come in and take your children? If you are giving them away for the pleasure of a 50-plus year-old man, if you are putting teen-agers on the street like the lost boys, sure they can come in and take them. That's called child abuse.

Do you even know where the term "Mormons" comes from? It was a knickname given to LDS members by those who wanted to exterminate them. The LDS Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The FLDS Church is The Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. Different Churches with similar names. The LDS Church only accepts the nickname "Mormons" now in certain contexts because unfortunately that knickname has stuck. You can group the LDS and FLDS Churches together by claiming that they are both "moromns", but it doesn't make them the same Church. Good try though.

One major difference is LDS members recognize the authority and priesthood of our modern day LDS Prophet.

FLDS DO NOT. They have there own leadership, separate, and distinct from LDS, and they do not recognize LDS leadership. It is a completely different organization.

Unlike the different Catholic sects that all see the Pope as their Church's authority.

Your comment is actually pretty funny. Just to clarify... One of the primary beliefs of the LDS faith is the belief of modern revelation from one with priesthood authority. Modern revelation is the key here. FLDS do not see the LDS Prophets as having that authority. Many small groups splintered off from the original LDS church that Joseph Smith created in 1830. The LDS church is the restored church Joseph Smith organized, not the FLDS or RLDS or any others out there.

If the FLDS is connected to the LDS, why don't they have the same Prophet? Last I looked, Thomas Monson is hanging out in Salt Lake, while Warren Jeffs (who has since said he was not a true prophet) is hanging out in jail. Monson has one wife, who was of a legal age to marry. Jeffs had many, who were not.

There are more differences, but that's the starting point.

This whole ordeal upset me a great deal. I am a LDS member living in Utah. My first thought was "great, maybe these young girls will be saved from the hell no earth they are living in". Well now my thoughts have dramatically changed. This is ALL they know. These are their children. As a mother, I feel for these moms, and fathers who have been separated from their families. Could you imagine the pain they are feeling? Unless abuse is proven, these families need to be reunited. These women arent legally married to the men. They are living out of wed lock, and have born children. Is that a crime? if they are under age, yes its a crime, and the men should be punished. Not the children.

I have no idea why LDS members feel any sense of kinship or sympathy for the FLDS Church.

The essential characteristic of the restored Gospel is Priesthood Authority.

FLDS have rejected that totally.

They pay lip service to external trappings associated with the True Church; temples, prophets,Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon. However that does not somehow make them "cousins" of LDS, it is instead a mockery and perversion. Worse, they practice polygamy; which, if done outside God's explicit instruction is abominal whoremongering.

Inevitably the world will confuse the FLDS with the True Church. If one had set out to intentionally confuse people and discredit the Church you could not have designed a circumstance any better for that purpose than events as they are unfolding.

The kind of horrific abuse FLDS inflicts on it's children is an inevitable (and forseeable) outcome.

Unlimited sympathy and support are due the victims of FLDS.

However any sympathy or empathy for the institution from LDS members is tragicly misguided and impossible to comprehend.

Telling the FLDS that they cannot use the word "Mormon" is no different than the people who say that LDS members cannot call themselves Christians. I think that people should be able to define themselves by what they want to call themselves. Don't we (LDS) believe that "We claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege-- LET THEM WORSHIP HOW, WHERE, OR WHAT THEY MAY?" We don't have to agree with the FLDS doctrine in order to let them use a word and we CAN use this opportunity to tell the people around us what we DO believe. Let people know us by the fruit of our actions. "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Pray for the FLDS. We LDS will be fine.

I believe the statement "there is no connection" does not mean to say there are not likenesses, that much is obvious to a rock. I think what is meant by that statement is there is no affiliation, the LDS church does not support what the FLDS are doing, does not condone their actions and is not associated with them in any way. Stop nitpicking. Just because the scriptures say to build your foundation upon the rock of Christ does not mean you go find a rock of granite and start building your home. C'mon, you know what is meant by "no connection."