So, if FLDS are fundamentalist Mormons, arn't Baptists really fundamentalist Catholics? Idiot ignorant Texans.

Why in the world would they ask such a thing? The LDS are not connected with them (the polygamous sect) in anyway. Also why do their prayers need to be monitored? What a wacko judge..

Greetings:

What difference does it make what religion, denomination, or sect these folks belong to?

As I understand it, representatives or members of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints are only being requested to SUPERVISE the FLDS prayer meetings, not participate in them.

Latter-day Saint chaplains in the Armed Forces (as do all chaplains, of all faiths) regularly coordinate with other faiths during their normal course of duty, with no problem.

So, what's the big deal?

I would think my Latter-day Saint brethren would be happy to assist in any way they could.

I know I would, without even questioning or doubting.

And why is it necessary to seek permission before doing something good, or helping a neighbor in need?

Our scriptures repeatedly counsel us to be anxiously engaged in good works, and to not wait to be commanded to do so.

Thank you.

John Robert Mallernee
Bard of Clan Henderson
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Washington, D.C. 20011-8400

The judge acknowledged that the churches are not the same. I think the correct response is, "Absolutely, we will serve our community anyway possible. We assume the judge is asking for our help because we are a people of service, not because of any supposed affiliation or connection to this fundamentalist group. But just so there is no confusion, let us explain who we are...."

A pretty dumb request but I can see why they considered this. Since when do non lds study lds history to know the differnce between FLDS and LDS. The church has been dealing with this stigma for how long now? Unless you live in Utah or deal with the church, why would you bother learning the difference. Maybe she assumed it was like the baptists(southern, national...).

To the first post: What is ignorant and stupid is you associating the judge's request with all Texans. Turn the mirror on yourself eye dee ten tee.

I also don't blame the judge for wanting to monitor their prayers. I seen the interviews of the FLDS women on the news and warning bells went off. If the women are unsupervised who knows what they will do to try to manipulate these kids. They can't be trusted.

Why wouldn't she find another member of FLDS? Because this is an attack on FLDS. She believes that all of them, as members of this church, a church that espouses polygamy, are guilty.

Just goes to show the extent of the misunderstanding in this case. The FLDS have a long and complicated history, and if the Texas authorities had a better grip on it, they would have taken a different course in dealing with these people and in resolving the problem of underage marriage. I wish the stake president in the area all the best in working to straighten things out. I hope he can instill a better understanding in the judge and all the others involved.

I think this situation gives the LDS church members an opportunity to let the local Texans and the media know that there is a separation of church and church. Every chance we get should be a teaching moment. Let's move towards 'informed knowledgable Texans'.

If this whole charade is not about religion, why are the FLDS people constantly referred to as a "polygamous sect"? Why not refer to them as "FLDS Church members" or "alledged child abusers" or even some other acceptable non-religious term?

The reasoning is simple for this action. Since both groups share the Book of Mormon, it is logical that someone LDS would have a greater degree of compassion and understanding. The example of the Baptist and the Catholics is indeed a good one. Pretend we are in Saudi Arabia, to that culture, asking a Catholic to pray with the Baptist would seem logical since they both share a Christian Bible even if there are differences. Other Christians do not use the Book of Mormon, so this is logical deduction. The Judge made a point of saying that she understood they were different. It is called compromise.
I suspect that the Church will gladly allow those LDS to pray with these women. Heck, I find it offensive that there are people suggesting we not just because of their religion. If they were Catholic would we be willing to pray with them? Yes. If they were Baptist would we be willing to pray with them? Yes. If they were ANY OTHER religion would we be willing to pray with them? Yes. SO why the exclusion? WWJD

the moms have been lying about which kid belongs to whom, and have been taking orders from merril jessop like a bunch of brainless sheep. Their prayers need to be monitored to make sure they dont try to coach the kids to lie during their prayer times.

This is a very clever judge, who helped her community rid themselves of the annoying and weird FLDS bunch and now sees a way to tarnish the LDS by getting them embroiled in the same controversy, further linking the two separate churches in the minds of the media. The last thing the LDS church should do is serve as a buffer between the state and the FLDS. The judge clearly hopes to paint the LDS church with the same brush and stir up the locals against them as well.

This judge has already demonstrated a woeful ignorance of the standards for probable cause necessary for issuing search warrants, and now further displays her ignorance of the religious groups within her own jurisdictional area. I am sure the LDS church will advise this stake president to do nothing more than provide humanitarian aid if requested.

The judge's request is totally reasonable. From an authentic Christian perspective, there isn't much difference between LDS and FLDS.

From an organizational perspective, the FLDS spring from the LDS, but from a doctrinal perspective, the LDS spring from the FLDS since the FLDS continue to abide by Joseph Smith's teachings.

Most Texans are Christians, although many are Catholic, and so they naturally tend to see LDS as just a more moderate form of FLDS.

I don't understand why a judge would think a prayer would have to be monitored. And also the LDS have absolultely nothing to do with the FLDS at all. How would a LDS Authority know anything about the way the FLDS prayer cirlces are?? DUH to the Texas judge! I think this mess is totally out of control!

Having LDS people help out with this would be perceived as "watching over our own". The LDS people do not condone polygamy - in fact we despise current polygamy and all of the corrupt behavior and dysfunctions that go along with it.

It would be nice if someone would help out with them, but hopefully,not the LDS. They want to lump us together with the polygamists.

I think this would be a great thing for the LDS to do. It is an act of Christian service. Will it happen? No the LDS want to stay as far away from these women with funny hairdos as they can.

Is Texas really that scared that the rest of the nation might find out about the conditions they have put these people in? Why else would they take away cell phones? I can't even start to believe the horrendous abuses of these people's rights. By the way, if I make a prank call to Texas authorities about a Baptist preacher abusing his kids can they take away all the Baptist kids and place them in state custody?

Regarding prayer supervision which yje Judge seems to see as necessary, it would seem to me to get the LDS Church involved would only serve to confuse the public that there is a current relationship between the two groups.

I think the invitation should be respectfully denied and a suggestion made that if this supervision is deemed necessary by the court that someone like Chaplins for the Army (in plain clothers at least) who are used to and trained to deal with individuals of different faiths be the ones assigned to the task.

I don't have any first hand knowledge, but it seems that I remember that the suspected WAR detainees in Cuba were even given time and rights to prayer.

To ask the LDS Church to supervise the prayers seems to me almost like when Christ found the woman in adultry and was asked what he would do thinking it was a question that would cause him problems either way he answered. He really surprised them with the answer of whoever was without sin should throw the first stone.

Since LDS people are not considered "Christians" by the mainstream Protestant Churches, why not ask one of the "Christian Clergy" to conduct prayer meetings? That should prove to be interesting.

Odd request. Perhaps the judge knows that LDS is the parent and the FLDS is the spin off cousin? Judge is smarter than I thought.

No body can love others like the LDS, what a great opportunity to reach out to the FLDS, not to judge them but to help them at this time and give them a better role model, a chance to view the delta between the belief systems of the two groups. Good things could come out of this if the spirit directs.

Perhaps the judge thought the FLDS women and children would be more comfortable if the people monitoring them understood the Book of Mormon, and the way they pray. I think the judge was trying to be considerate of them. Wouldn't you rather have someone who understood a little more about your faith listen to your prayers?

Baptists may not be fundamentalist Catholics, but fundamentalist Baptists are certainly Baptists.

Eye Dee Ten Tee: We aren't "Idiot ignorant Texans". We're trying to do the best we can in a situation no other state has wanted to deal with. We KNOW LDS and FLDS are not the same. No one is saying the LDS is involved, the judge is only asking for help.

I bet Mitt's glad he dropped out of the election now. Can you imagine trying to explain this crap to a nation of prejudiced idiots?

It's not the prayers themselves they want monitored - it's that they see the prayer time as an opportunity for the parents to coach the children on what to/not to say to CPS people, etc.
As for the confusion on the part of the judge, I'm not surprised. My daughter currently at BYU was well-known to be the only LDS student in her high school class, and my husband is a favorite teacher there. Still, her non-LDS friends from home who have known her and our family for a good part of their lives are sending her on-line messages questioning her relationship with the sect.

Interesting dilemma. What would you do? The LDS Church has just made a concerted effort to emphasize the differences between their culture and teachings and those of the FLDS, and directly in the wake of that effort they are now asked to step in and assist a people in need, albeit apostates from their own beliefs to boot. Sure the test comes from a judge ignorant of the differences, but what does that matter? If the LDS Church agrees to assist, then the separation effort could be for naught and the two would again be lumped together. If they don't extend a helping hand, they would be acting counter to their natural inclination. How the Lord loves to test us in the most interesting ways.

We, as Latter-Day Saints, ought not to be so concerned what everybody thinks about this. If we are asked to help out we would do more good by being willing to help out, instead of worrying about what everybody thinks. Goodness and dependability will do more for us in the long run then having a perfect image. Even Jesus was willing to associate with people who were considered sinners by society

They are connected: Same bibles and same doctrine. Maybe LDS does not practice polygamy but it still appears in the doctrine. There needs to be constant monitoring to prevent coaching and endoctrinating. Judge Pretty Smart!

Scary!! Now they are monitoring the prayers!! And what about taking away the women's cellphones because they complained about the living conditions and took pictures with the phones as evidence of what they were alleging. What happen to freedom? Sounds like the State of Texas is afraid of others finding out about their nazi tactics. These women were not in jail!!!!

The church has helped non members countless times during natural disasters. Well the only difference is this is a man made disaster, and the church as the opportunity to help. I can see the branch president's point wanting to check with church headquarters, but I'd volunteer if I were down there.

Obviously, there is still a failure of understanding, even after over 100 years since polygamy has been outlawed by the LDS church. Why doesn't the judge ask those nice Baptist folks who lent the state their vans and facilities? That would make just as much sense. The LDS church isn't any more closely related to this rogue group than any other Christian denomination. Jeesh!

The prayers have to be monitored if they include contact between adult and child. Just as any other contact would be monitored. I appreciate that a prayer is personal and private, but if they are not monitored, then what would stop the adult from having a few non-prayer moments before or after or instead of the prayer that is being given. I am LDS, and I am a CPS worker from another state. Why doesn't the court find a CPS worker who is either LDS or FLDS or knowlegeable of the LDS or FLDS beliefs and tenets monitor the prayers. I agree that the parents should be allowed to pray with their children (if we knew which parent went with each child), but it would be wrong to ask a non-CPS worker to monitor these. I would even volunteer to come down there to supervise them. As both an act of kindness for the parents and as a CPS worker who wants to protect children.

True, our ways parted long ago, and there is much that now differentiates LDS from FLDS; however, we do have common roots, and if any other group out there is likely to share some common ground that these mothers and children can relate to, it ought to be us. The article did quote the judge as saying she realized we were a different church. She is just trying to find someone that both the FLDS and the state feel they can trust to represent their interests.

I find it something of a compliment that the judge would consider us as people able to fairly and honestly serve by assisting in this way. I am baffled that the local leaders are baffled by the request. Did they think the state would bring the men from YFZ to supervise prayers, or former members who might have strong emotional or family ties to the situation? Not likely!

I don't get the monitoring of prayer session, you better have one person per mother to make sure they don't talk to the children, how about enlisting the prosecutor and his entourage.

Why submit this task on another religious group. So if someone talks to their children it can be pinned on the LDS church allowing such.

The judge is still living in the backcountry!

Might be a good opportunity to get a little----oh I don't know---MISSIONARY WORK--done. Hmmmmm.

I say bravo it will make the transition for these people alot easier

My opinion is that the judge is simply trying to make a compromise. People have the right to pray. Children have the right to learn to pray. A mother often plays a significant role in teaching children to pray, kneeling with her child. On the other side, tampering with witnesses is a serious crime and can jeopardize the intentions of Texas to protect these children. The investigation is currently under way. The judge is trying to grant permission for mothers to continue to kneel in prayer with their children without providing a situation that can bring into question the integrity of the investigation. If asked, I would certainly welcome the opportunity to protect the state's investigation and the rights of mothers and their children to continue their daily tradition of kneeling in prayer together. A person monitoring the prayers can only serve to protect the state and the FLDS families, especially the innocent. I choose not to read any more into this story than that.

I'm just an ole' country boy from the mountains of North Carolina but I wouldn't take to kindly to someone monitoring my prayers. Seems I remember something in a special document about freedom of religion. As a member of the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I find this request at the least a little strange, especially from a judge.

I think it an excellent idea that we help our fellow brethren in Christ. The LDS Church in its history has helped out other churches several times. They even allow Baptists to hold meetings in our Seminary building, so why not help out the community. As stated before the LDS church was only asked to supervise (which I find terribly disturbing that they cannot even practice their religion) not participate. Even if they were asked to participate so what? The important part of prayer is the communication with God, not the how's and the what's. He loves us all, and each supplication to Him is as important as the next. While I may not agree with some of what they practice, their right to pray is undeniable, and worth fighting for. People in this church may have done some terrible things, but who am I to deny their right to pray? The Church should be honored that it was even considered to be a part of this.

I'm so tired of people equating FLDS with LDS. So not the same.

Everyones focusing here on the prayers not the children under 2 years old. These children can not tell of abuse they're not even speaking in complete sentences yet. Pediatricians will tell you it's in these children's best interests to continue breast feeding and since mothers can't sway children unable to report abuse in the first place leave them together.

It is amazing to me being on the outside looking in that Mormons are always so worried about what others think of them. I see this in my neighborhood and at work. What does it matter what the world thinks of them? Whatever happened to love the sinner and not the sin? Serve thy neighbor without having stipulations put on it.

I agree that the LDS chhurch should be of compassionate service before during and after being asked, but when will the capricious Judge Walther blur the line between assisting and abetting? AND, when did monitoting prayers become a function of the DCFS, the courts and the government in this land of the free and the home of the brave? I say againg that this action is a violation of too many constitutional protections. It creeps slowly from one abuse to the next. So many of you posting will cry that all is fair in protecting the children and claim that I support and foster abuse, but this next effort by the judge in the name of "helping" the situation blurs the line between church and state. Where are the separationists hiding now??
Plus, I can hardly wait until the allegations fly that the LDS are in cahoots against the DCFS. Judge Walther exacerbated this mess, should have recused herself from the custody hearing and continues to meddle in affairs of unconstitutional behavior on the part of the state of Texas. Everything is big in Texas, including its ego and screwups.

reuel: You assume what & why "LDS" people do what they do. I, for one, would do whatever I could to help if it became necessary and possible. It has nothing to do with hair dos, dress, or behavior; but it has everything to do with them telling the truth and doing what is best for the children. It matters that the FLDS women do what is legal and honest, but the media and other readers portray them as liers. Only God knows them.

I do agree that some want to lump us together with polygamists, Many people in our nation still think we believe in plural marriage, and some believe that we have horns and worship Satan. None of the above is true, but people don't want to take time to learn what we believe. Some Christians of other faths do not believe that we are Christians, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Regarding Joseph Smith: We do now and always will follow his teachings; and we honor him as the Prophet of the Restoration. No one has to agree with our beliefs, but we have the right to practice them, including service to others.

As a member of the LDS Church, I don't think we should be involved in this process whatsoever. It is a government operation and our Church has nothing to do with determining, "buffering", monitoring, or assuring these folks rights. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's...

I hope the FLDS will be treated with respect and dignity, but after a concerted effort to distinguish ourselves from the FLDS and to diminish misconceptions propagated by the media, why would we want to blur the line once again?! In this society of guilt by association, the safest tactic is to remain disassociated.

How about this -- Africans in custody may need supervision, but we can't bring any in ... how about a Haitian? Duh....

So much to consider... To request LDS assistance without asking and receiving responses from both parties is strange.. One might question another's understanding of how to deal with people, unless there are other motives not expressed. It could be ignorance or purposeful entrapment. OR, it might even indicate that the judge just can't trust the CPS workers and doesn't know how to work around that problem. Lots to consider before flying off the handle with pronouncements and judgements. Fortunately, it appears from the very sketchy reporting that there are some attorneys seeking to maintain the rights of their clients. Now we have a bunch of groups (the church, the moms, the police, the CPS, the attorneys, THE MEDIA, the public and the judge) strutting around wrestling with this matter and through it all hopefully it will work out for the best. Fortunately we don't have a king to decide it all.

Very well spoken. I agree with you. What a humbling honor to accept such a request to be of service.

The farther the LDS people stay from this case the better. The request is odd in the extreme. No thanks.

Perhaps the ACLU could monitor the prayer time? Since they know so much about that particular subject.