I am not a lawyer, yet it seems the constitution has been trampled here.
Unlawful search and seizure: armored vehicles taken in, children being taken from their mothers.
Right to privacy,
Right to an attorney,
Freedom of religion: the innocent still get to practice what they would like, minister client privilege,
Innocent until proven guilty,

CPS has been a joke: 416 children, then 437, then 462. Taking children to "foster centers". Those children are likely to have a miserable new life.

Crime committed: "young girls married off to older men". Please punish the men and not the mothers or children

God Bless America

The FLDS practice of forcing children into marriage is horrendous. Texas CPS bureaucrats are compounding that evil by committing religious genocide. This is no longer a free nation. It is a police state.

I wonder if these same mothers shouted "Help!" when their children were being water-boarded into compliance by their fathers (Carolyn Jessop, ESCAPE) or under-aged daughters forced to marry uncles and 1st cousins.

No matter how indoctrinated these women are, I just really cannot drum up the empathy I would under different circumstances.

These poor kids are in a lose-lose situation. How so very, very sad for them.

The FLDS lawyers (namely Rod Parker) are idiots. They want their clients to be able to break the law under the banner "religious freedom". They should have been advising their clients to practice their religion within the boundaries of the law years ago.

From the FLDS lawyer perspective, we should allow muslim jihadists to blow us up with impunity.

These guys are NUTS!

It is absolutely wrong to abuse children in any way, even by those in "authority." There is such a thing called due process of law. That process has been hurled out of the window. A state which I once was proud to call my adopted state, (being from AZ)I now disdain. These poor, poor little children, ripped from their mother's arms. These poor mother's. It's like watching a kidnapper race away with your child in their car, and you're powerless to retrieve them. Look how powerful the governments have become; where are their state and federal representatives.

Is it in the best interest of the children to put them in lifestyle they know nothing about? Although I do not agree with the FLDS teachings I have to agree that if we let this happen where will it stop. When will they come after our children for our religious beliefs? When will they disagree about the teaching that marriage between a man and woman is ordained of God? When will they tell us we restrict the freedom of our children by teaching them to not smoke, drink, see rated R movies and dress modestly. When will the government tell us what we can and can't teach our children? How soon until our babies are pulled from our arms? Pray for the mothers. Just think for a moment about your child being bussed off to Babylon to be raised among strangers. You have to weep for the mothers.

"AUSTIN — Forty women opted Thursday to go to a family violence shelter rather than return to the West Texas ranch where authorities allege children are unsafe because of the polygamist group's practice of "spiritually marrying" underage girls to older men.

Seven of the women who had been staying with their children in public shelters for the past three weeks returned to the Yearning for Zion ranch near Eldorado.

The number of women choosing to go to an undisclosed family violence shelter was a turnaround from last week, when six sought shelter and 51 returned to the isolated compound."

Why Would so Many LDS Members turn out in support of the FLDS if they do not agree with Polygamy? Why are so many of the Women on the Bus smiling and waving?

May I ask I simple question?? Why don't the men of the YFZ Ranch come forward and claim their wives and children? Just say to authorities, these wives are mine and these children are mine. Stand up and and be a man about it. If you broke the law, take responsibility. Fight it in court if you think you are right. Intentionally misrepresenting things, telling lies, covering things up, hiding out, is not going to help your cause. Let the chips fall were they may. You are not above the laws of this nation, regardless of how loyal you are to your faith.

Jimmy, come to Texas; we need you. And no, I'm not kidding.

Seriously, if we want to protect against child brides, then Jimmy (or Texas authorities, or Mark Shurtleff or somebody) needs to do the following:

1. Meet with Warren Jeffs and other FLDS leaders; explain that if they continue to permit or sanction child marriages, the leaders will be imprisoned, and the FLDS church will be hounded out of existence. Get them to agree to stop this practice. What's done is done, but no more.

2. Meet with FLDS mothers and local leaders. Have them agree to not permit underage marriages, and agree to report any that take place. Failure to abide by this agreement will result in both criminal prosecution and loss of their children (because now they would be criminals). Agree to live a bit more in the open; marriage certificates, birth certificates, etc.

3. With agreements in hand, return the kids to their mothers; the message has been sent. In exchange, FLDS agree not to sue Texas and tie up their courts for decades. Then we can put this sorry mess behind us.

It is painful for these women and children but what is happening is the best help they could recieve.

When you treat a severe chronic infection there is some initial pain as you drain and clean the wound but it is necessary to begin the healing.

These pitiful children need to be removed from all the adults in their lives; the actual abusers and the facilitators.

These pitiful women need to be reprogramed with appropriate values to be able to take care of and protect children in their care.

It is heartbreaking but necessary.

Wonderful headline!

The women yell "help" and the men are silent. Where's Merrill Jessop?

Thank you... It seems like there are so few of us who actually see how nuts the FLDS are! As an outsider reading the message boards, it seems as if most desnews readers condone abuse/neglect, or at least would rather see that then let the government step in. Crazy to me... I thank God for being raised in a healthy, non-abusive environment and can only pray these kids are given the same opportunities I had - whomever they end up with.

How have we allowed our legal system to become so twisted that we punish the victims (in this case, the mothers and children) while the alleged violaters run free? This is not what our founders intended.

There's no pretty way that these church prison compounds are going to be put out of business. It's just disturbing how much support they have in Utah.

Heart-breaking.
When the women of the FLDS are "convinced participants" of their sect`s correctness (go along with it), I cannot imagine ANY way to protect the children other than the present horrendous actions.
Because of the sects` practices, they have had to invent their lieing and bizarre "handling" of the "outside world".
Anyone in the state of Texas, when asked questions by law enforcement is OBLIGATED to tell the truth and "punished" if the answers are lies. This cult does NOT answer questioning truthfully. Can you IMAGINE how we could maintain ANY kind of "order" in our society if everyone is allowed to lie with impunity when questioned by law enforcement? Others cannot get away with doing so, why should we think the FLDS people can do so? Stop and think just where you are placing sympathies and why?
Do the little girls in this sect have to continue to be "used" in ways against our laws just because we don`t see that the PROBLEM is with the conduct of the sect, not law enforcement?
Do you CARE about the little girls or a maintainance of workable laws to LIVE by?

I want to know exactly how many child brides there are that are pregnant. I also want to know exactly their ages are. In court, the ages of the pregnant girls keeps rising. The State of Texas does not believe girls when they say they are adults. The State of Texas has not exactly been transparent about what their justifications are to break up so many families. I do not believe that there has been imminent danger to these children. This is a thinley veiled religious persecution and in my oppinion an outrage. If there are abuses where are the charges against the adults. Why have no rape/child molestation charges been filed? This is a disturbing situation.

Where are all the crying daddies?

I agree with "where is jimmy carter"
When I first heard of this case, I still thought the legal age to marry with parental permission in Texas was 14, 13 with court agreement. Some of these people said they "didn't know" it was against the law for under 16 to marry in Texas.
I understand ignorance of the law is no excuse, but the law was changed just because of the FLDS moving here. It was morally acceptable for Baptist or Methodist girls to marry at 14 but Texas had to put a stop to "those mormons" doing it.

They need to send the children home and put at least four to five live in counselors on the ranch that the women and children must meet with at least once a week for "re-teaching". Plus all the agreements above. Four or five live-in counselors would cost almost nothing compared to moving all these women and children. Even one counselor per home would still be more cost-effective and do more good.

The men should all go to group counseling at a domestic violence center plus see an individual counselor once a week.

(this is only if the girls were not forced, if any were forced then that man just need to have charges filed.

So we take away all the children that live under Sharia Law here in the US? Talk about indoctrination!

Most of the FLDS were deprived of their constitutional rights unless you are saying all 400+ children were physically abused. Interesting that none of the parents have been held or charged for anything.

This was politically motivated by the local residents who were suspicious of a secritive sect. They got their wish based on a hoax. The authorities had an informant inside the compound for 4 years and nothing substantiated to justify going in. Tanks, Texas and religion. What a country! Hey at least they didn't burn down the compound.

You base your waterboarding story from one single woman (Jessop) who clearly has an axe to grind. BTW.......she admitted to Larry King that her upbringing was 'nice'.

I wonder if the little girls shouted Help! when they were raped by old perverts.

This may be unpleasent to some, however it is factual, that the SS during the Nazi rule in Germany
did the same thing as Texas, as they loaded up the families for deportation. They systematically seperated the older children from their mothers, until only mothers with very young children, were then shipped of to their, Final Solution, er; destination. I did not say that it is exactly the
same, however as in all Totalitarian Nations, the 1st steps always involve the isolation of certain
"less than worthy" groups of the society. Please do
not over react, just ponder what has been said.
It is very easy to ignore the plight of an unsavory
group of society, especially if your not involved with said group.My American Friends, I percieve that
a great injustice is being perpetrated by the state
of Texas. They are clearly conducting group justice,
as opposed to indivudial justice. Imagine being rounded up as a neighborhood, for something that a
person four houses done the street did. Thia is not
what the Founding Fathers and Mothers fought for!
We must not ignore, the reality of injustice because
of our own personal prejudice, or bigotry.

Where are the charges? What have these women been convicted of? On what grounds can a state remove children from their parents?

Suspicion. That's it. If the state is suspicious of you, say good-bye to your family.

Orwell lives.

I wonder if the little boys shouted Help! when they were abandoned on the highway.

Since the state of Texas is going to have to pay
the foster parents to take these kids, why not throw the real criminals, the fathers, in jail for 20 years and give the the money to the real mothers of the children and let them raise them under the supervision of the state?

Some of the comments are sad; reprogramming, saving the children, open view of their lifestyles, indoctrinated women ...
How many of you, from the view of others:
Should be reprogrammed? Should have your children saved? Should have an open view of your lifestyle? Have indoctrinated wives?
I DO NOT agree with polygamy, child brides, child abuse, etc., but, the CPS went in under a false phone call & blanket allegations. As one lawyer pointed out, that this is unprecidted, if the State & CPS wins, beware of any alleged illegal activity by someone in your group, club, congregation, church, etc., then people can be saying the same thing about you; reprogram them, save the children ...
The Constitution has been trampled upon, it is being picked apart, we need to be careful, we might be loosing it.

AIMHO

About the women who returned to the compound and the men who are still there. What is to stop them from procreating again? And what is CPS going to do, come take the babies the minute they're born?
Or do they plan to force these people into having permanent birth control procedures. This reminds me of

The way they are going about this makes no sense. If the men are the perpetrators, WHY are they being left alone?

have been supporting these kids already for years.
cut the mooching deadbeat adults off from the gravy train.

Where are the men and why aren't they being arrested? It is inconceivable to me that something like this could happen in America. Whatever happened to due process? These children are far more likely to suffer abuse in the foster care system than at home with their mothers.
I do not agree with the practices of the FLDS group, I doubt that God does either, but unless there is "real" proof of a "real" claim. why punish the mothers and children. Again I ask where are the men? Where are the patriachs? Where is their so-called prophet?
How soon will it be before other groups are subject to this persecution because of their religious beliefs?
As far as I can tell from what I have read, the only crime here is being committed by the "great" State of Texas.
Polygamy is illegal, arrest the men!!!

I got distracted in the middle of my post. Someone wanted breakfast of all things! :)

I was saying that this reminds me of the eugenics movement of Hitler and friends. Ethnic cleansing? Maybe not yet, but only a few steps away it seems.

Heart-breaking to see the judicial system of Texas so corrupted by power. Are Utah citizens safe from similar abuses?

Being in the hands of the law is never comfortable. That is why we have an incentive to stay out of the hands of the law. Law-abiding citizens do not have as much trouble with this.

What's the judge's name - Roy Bean?

Polygamy may be illegal.However, there are a lot of illegal things that go on everyday in this country. We do not rip children away from thier mothers though.Why, in some cases, we go out of our way to accomadate illegal activities and make them legal, ie,sodomy,immigration,drugs to name a few.Yes, these fathers need to step up and claim thier children.Then petition lawmakers to legalize polygamy! If they feel that strong about it, speak up and demand it.Gays demanded sodomy be no longer illegal. Illegal immigrants took to the streets to show thier support to stay here.Some states have legalized personal use of marijuana. I certainly don't remember these people having the state come in and bus away thier children! Does anybody think that the state of Texas is going to wipe out polygamy by this action? I say lock up the pedophiles but let the rest of them go home!

This has nothing to do with religious persecution, common moral decency says these kids are not being raised to be productive adults of society, they are being raised to be additional baby machines. The men in this sect should be arrested for everything including child rape, they cower behind the "religion" and the women they persecute. I don't believe that people in a situation like this can ever be reprogrammed to be functioning members of society but something needs to be done. There is no perfect solution to this mess, someones feelings are always going to get hurt. I have personally seen the way certain religions raise thier children "quantity not quality". Most of all don't hide behind religious freedom, in the Muslim religion women have no rights, female circumcisions is ok, is that OK? I have seen people jump higher and protest more in the protection of animals than I have seen here in the protection of these children. Bravo to whoever made the initial call to CPS, fake or not there is something really wrong going on in the FLDS ranch.

These poor kids are being sent from a closed polygamous society to one filled with crime, sin and abuse. I assume they live in a place almost free of drug addiction, alcoholism, violent crime, personal debt, prostitution and an and on.

Good thing they're being rescued from all of that.

Raising the age of consent for marriage from 14 to 16 was important to keep FLDS from abusing the law to FORCE young girls into sham marriages where they would be abused sexually and otherwise with the consent of their zombied-out parents. Previously, the lower age was designed for kids who had gotten in "trouble" and needed to marry for the sake of their baby. Its use was rare--and meant to be rare. FLDS's arrival in Texas changed all that.

God bless Texas for doing everything in its power to protect the children, and when possible the women. Some of these women are, unfortunately, too far gone for help. The women should be held to a lesser standard than the men, but they are not guitless, and apparently not able and/or willing to protect children.

Lionhearted wonders if the lost, abandoned boys cried for help on the highway or young girls cried for help when being raped by their "spiritual" husbands. I don't wonder if they cried out, but whey their cries went unanswered by their mothers and fathers.

My heart goes out to the children, as they face a difficult, but necessary, transition.

More and more of us are asking: Where is the proof of the crime? Do you arrest people and THEN begin your investigation? Anyone ranting about how they deserve what they're getting has overlooked that nothing has been proven! Texas has made claims without presenting any evidence. An investigation can be conducted without such abuse of power and denial of rights. Until solid evidence is presented, we should listen to the cries for help and demand due process.

may be a harsh term but from where these women are now it is the only way to instill appropriate values in them.

this is not about "lifestyle"

this is not about "religion"

it is about a vast criminal enterprise involving fraud and trafficing minors for sex. it is about three generations BRAINWASHED to be passive victims of sexual abuse.

if that is going on in your house, then sure- BE AFRAID.

otherwise sleep easy.

Was there any officers with any morals who would sooner give up their badges than rip a crying baby from the mothers arms?
Where does Dr. Laura Slescinguer stand in this? She was a huge supporter of moms being their kids mom. She should have some jewish relatives who may have been involved in persecution such as is happening here? These people need a friend in the media who can look at them as innocent before proven guilty.

Bash us all you want but officials here in Texas are doing the right thing. CPS protects children daily from abuse which is their lawfully mandated mission. The fact that abuse is being done in a group setting under the guise of religious freedom should not protect the perpetrators. I do agree with those asking where are the men, and why aren't official going after them but I think that will happen in time. On the other hand the mother's are just as guilty for letting it happen and buying into their leaders pseudo-religious nonsense when it comes to the way children and women should be treated.

According to the San Angelo newspaper, the original six women that went to the shelter returned to the ranch once their lawyers informed them that going to the shelter would not improve their chances of getting their children back. Both for those six and the forty today, there are allegations that CPS told the women that going to the shelter would improve their chances. These allegations have been lodged by their lawyers.

Of course, CPS denies this. But it certainly makes CPS look better if women appear to be choosing the shelter. Texas CPS is under tremendous fire here. I can believe the lawyers claims.

CPS abuse is not limited to this group, whatever convenient label you put on them. If you are a parent, you should be scared. If you have a vindictive ex-spouse and you have custody of your kids, you should be VERY scared.

My young teen daughter and my ex created a plan RIGHT UNDER MY NOSE to accuse me of sexual abuse, talking about it over the phone. One day, my ex met my daughter at church after-school care, and took her for her weekend visitation. They did a rape kit, questioned her, and then hid her away from me with the above-the-law power of CPS. They then "interviewed" my sons, my wife, and myself, even accusing my sons of abusing her. I told them if my ex was doing this, she MUST be neck-deep in trouble. My child wasn't returned until $10,000 and four months later. I was never convicted of any crime, but she was never charged with making a false report. Come to find out, my ex had been writing bad checks, and wanted custody so she wouldn't have to go to prison (the "my baby needs me!" excuse).

I'm heartsick at what my gov't has done. God help this nation.

THE CHILDREN ALWAYS PAY FOR THE SINS OF THEIR FATHERS.

IN THIS CASE THE CHILDEREN ARE SUFFERING FOR THE SINS COMMITTED BY THE FATHERS... VERY SAD INDEED!

THE FLDS MEN SHOULD BE THE ONES IN CUSTODY FOR THEIR LUST AND ADULTERY LIFE STYLE! ITS EVEN WORSE TO USE GOD FOR THEIR EVIL PRACTICES. TERRIBLE SHAME!

I'm a little tired of hearing CPS complaints that the children and parents won't tell them clear information about the family relationships.

Think about it a bit. If CPS comes to your home with law enforcement in tow, they know who you are and usually know exactly how many children you have. So, they know exactly who they taking into custody.

From the video I've seen, there was no effort on the part of CPS or law enforcement during the raid to identify children and parents - basic stuff, like these kids came from that domicile, etc. As they loaded women and children on the bus, why not photograph them and ask them, "what's your name, are these your children, what are their names, etc?" They have an obligation to know who they are taking.

Once they are in a group shelter, it would be irresponsible for CPS to accept what the children or women tell them. At that point, they are a large, unidentified group. If some unconfirmed woman says "yea, that's my child", should they just believe her? CPS has made a lot of mistakes here - when will they take some responsibility for the problems?

to DCnTN , I belive control and child rape fall under your "safe ranch".