Reader comments: Nature's cathedrals: Faiths have different views on worship in 'great outdoors'
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Anonymous | 1:45 a.m. May 3, 2008
Worshipping as a true disciple requires submitting ourselves to His will. As long as we are focusing on our will (i.e., "I want to go to the National Park to draw near to God."), we are worshipping ourselves at best. Does He want us in a Church building on the Sabbath? Yup! That's the day He has designated for us to gather together to set aside the things of this world (His magnificent creation) and look after and help one another with kind words, encouragement, concern, and sharing His light in our lives. Shouldn't we be doing that everyday? Yup, no doubt about it. And on the Sabbath we are told to gather together to worship.
How to Serve | 5:02 a.m. May 3, 2008
I'm involved in an outdoor industry and daily deal with people who spend a great deal of time enjoying God's creation, the great outdoors. Yet I've learned that Sunday should rightfully be not only a day of rest but a day of service. Happiness comes only from service to others. Nowhere are service opportunities to others more available than in church. It's important not only to attend church to recharge one's spiritual batteries but also to serve others. There are many things a person can do to serve others, and though many of those things occur on weekdays, such as helping a struggling single woman with yard or house problems, the planning can take place on the Sabbath. Any service goes much better when performed in concert with others -- many hands make light work. Church also allows a person to socialize with others who have similar standards. Many people spend the week with co-workers who take the name of the Lord in vain, tell dirty jokes, concentrate solely on things of the world, and generally do not live as Christ would live. Attending church allows a person to go back to such an environment and lead by example.
marma | 7:42 a.m. May 3, 2008
Well written and concise article. I appreciate the quotes from each viewpoint. Nature has been a source of peace for me, and I agree that we are nonetheless social animals, and do need to apply ourselves to love our fellow beings by dealing with all the weaknesses (and strengths)of organized worship.
Comments continue below
Vivian | 8:01 a.m. May 3, 2008
It would be nice if the mormon church would take the time and preparation to present an informative and inspiring sunday sermon. It is difficult to be inspired by listening to members recounting their travel expeience, their sorrow and hard times, the children standing up and uttering that they know this and that when we all know they don't even know how to sit still in their seats without annoying others. It would be nice to return from church with a feeling of being inspired and have learned something religious and not have just endured another sunday in church.
schreinervideo | 9:19 a.m. May 3, 2008
"In an odd sense, the only real way to honor the Creator of all outdoors is to get inside a church," he concluded.
He's right. That is odd. The road to humankind's redemption begins with knocking down some of these minsterial monstrosities and restoring what God created.
He's right. That is odd. The road to humankind's redemption begins with knocking down some of these minsterial monstrosities and restoring what God created.
schreinervideo | 9:42 a.m. May 3, 2008
"exaggerated grandeur of the Grand Canyon..."
You mean, God's exaggeration?
You mean, God's exaggeration?
schreinervideo | 10:00 a.m. May 3, 2008
Do you all presume that churches- human creations- are holier than Nature- God's creation?
Clare | 10:31 a.m. May 3, 2008
Dear Vivian,
Our church is not the Mormon Church, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I'm sorry you don't find any inspitation at church, but sometimes it takes an effort on your part, too As a woman and wife who was unable to have children, I can understand your complaints about the children, but I choose to look beyond that into the bigger picture.
My husband once said something I've always found to be very profound. Worship the Creator, not his creations. As a national park devotee, I totally understand the feeling of feeling close to God when wondering at the beautiful things he has made. When I visit a park, especially when it is pretty much deserted, I love to sit and allow the spirit to flow through me. I'd tell you a great place to do this at, but then you guys much show up! Selfish am I!
Our church is not the Mormon Church, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I'm sorry you don't find any inspitation at church, but sometimes it takes an effort on your part, too As a woman and wife who was unable to have children, I can understand your complaints about the children, but I choose to look beyond that into the bigger picture.
My husband once said something I've always found to be very profound. Worship the Creator, not his creations. As a national park devotee, I totally understand the feeling of feeling close to God when wondering at the beautiful things he has made. When I visit a park, especially when it is pretty much deserted, I love to sit and allow the spirit to flow through me. I'd tell you a great place to do this at, but then you guys much show up! Selfish am I!
inspiring | 11:12 a.m. May 3, 2008
I find that when I attend Sacrament meeting with the proper attitude I always feel the Spirit and am uplifted by something during the service, no matter what the quality of the speakers, music or ambiance.
I find it interesting that two folks can sit thru the exact same service and one complain and ridicule everything that occurred while the other thought it was a great uplifting service.
It is like the guy who stood outside the city gate and a newcomer arrived and said how are the folks in this town? The guy said "how were they where you came from?" oh horrible, etc, etc the newcomer complained. This town is just the same, the guy advised. Then another newcomer came and asked the same question. "how was your previous town?" the guy at the gate replied; "oh great- salt of the earth, etc etc." "Why, the people here are just like that, too!"
It mostly comes from inside.
I find it interesting that two folks can sit thru the exact same service and one complain and ridicule everything that occurred while the other thought it was a great uplifting service.
It is like the guy who stood outside the city gate and a newcomer arrived and said how are the folks in this town? The guy said "how were they where you came from?" oh horrible, etc, etc the newcomer complained. This town is just the same, the guy advised. Then another newcomer came and asked the same question. "how was your previous town?" the guy at the gate replied; "oh great- salt of the earth, etc etc." "Why, the people here are just like that, too!"
It mostly comes from inside.
Foo Bear | 12:36 p.m. May 3, 2008
Some of my most memorable Sacrament/religious services were during Scouting backpacking & Jamboree outdoor settings. I remember them decades later...
When I'm out on the land, I view it with a duality of Divine Creation and Natural processes. I don't feel closer to God or generally a spiritual experience. I do feel closer to myself, and enjoy a break from the onslaught of today's multiple inputs. I don't use the rhetorical line that the "Wilderness is my Chapel", but do consider it my refuge. And there 'is' a spritual benefit from the time I spend 'out there'. Even on Sundays...
Besides, not all Ministries involve a Pew, in a box
surrounded by a seething mass.
When I'm out on the land, I view it with a duality of Divine Creation and Natural processes. I don't feel closer to God or generally a spiritual experience. I do feel closer to myself, and enjoy a break from the onslaught of today's multiple inputs. I don't use the rhetorical line that the "Wilderness is my Chapel", but do consider it my refuge. And there 'is' a spritual benefit from the time I spend 'out there'. Even on Sundays...
Besides, not all Ministries involve a Pew, in a box
surrounded by a seething mass.
pramod kumar | 12:46 p.m. May 3, 2008
i agree that we should worship the creator and not the creation. i am from the church of jesus christ of latter day saints ,hyderabad,india. in our sacrament meetings, we feel the spirit so strongly and feel close to the spirit. our attitude matters a lot . its not what's happening outside that matters but what happens inside our hearts .
I agree with inspiring | 12:55 p.m. May 3, 2008
There is hardly anything that isn't totally affected by our own attitude towards it. If you are not finding anything uplifting or positive in your religion experience then I do agree that most likely YOU need to look within and find a way to change that instead of looking outward to others to change it for you. I know this from experience so I am not being self-righteous or judgemental, I found it to be true in not only my spiritual experiences but all other aspects of life. I very often have found the spirit in the outdoors but love the article making a point of going to organized meeting to show gratitude for nature and honor The Creator for that blessing.
Vivian | 1:27 p.m. May 3, 2008
If an person is feeling that way then the spirit is not with them and they can't feel it because they haven't nurtured their seed that the Lord has in us all. This will help. What I did to work on my spirit before I went back to going full time to church was I went to the local park around my area and put in some peaceful music in and rolled the windows down and said an personal detailed prayer of why I was there and what I was there to accomplish and asked that the Lord's spirit be there and have my spirit be open and able to listen and pay attention. If we don't do this we don't have the right spirit with us. When adults and children open themselves up to the Lord then it makes it easier to be able to understand it more better. I know I've felt many a people's spirits not be right and it's made me uncomfortable. Why should others suffer because that person doesn't feel it. I don't think that's fair either. So if more people would work on themselves before coming to church they would feel it.
Vivian | 1:38 p.m. May 3, 2008
By the way I was studying scriptures at the park. I didn't have room to say that. You have to invite the right spirit in to be able to do that before studying. I have noticed an HUGE difference when I don't. I also have been one of those ones that has sat on both sides of the fence. I use to be one of those people like inspiring said that would complain through an meeting but I realized after letting all my past problems and upsets go to the Lord that it was me that was the problem too. Not just others. I felt ashamed and asked God to please forgive me for my follies and then I asked him what I should do. He showed me in the sciptures and through nature. So it really does go hand in hand. I worship the Lord and not what he made. I believe strongly in that. I believe that it is worshiping an idol when we worship something that isn't God. This is why we are hold to be mindful of ourselves and watch what we are doing and saying. We must work on ourselves or it doesn't work.
Carlton | 1:45 p.m. May 3, 2008
I spend my Sundays in God's Cathedral - the great outdoors! The manmade Church buildings are so stuffy and pitiful and worthless by comparison, I just couldn't continue to waste any more time in them.
I invite you all to come worship with me in the great outdoors! Get out of those inferior shacks and come with me!
I invite you all to come worship with me in the great outdoors! Get out of those inferior shacks and come with me!
Ex Californian | 1:55 p.m. May 3, 2008
In one mega church I encountered the philosophy that one should not go to National Parks or experience nature because it took the focus away from God. Anything that took away focus from God and family was to be avoided. But this was in a highly over developed region where it took considerable effort to get to anything that could be considered nature so being outdoors outside of organized sports for kids just wasn't part of anyones' lives any more.
green mormon architect | 4:32 p.m. May 3, 2008
Many religions incorporate nature into their places of worship in various ways. I actually just posted on my blog a similar topic this week called "Of Sacred Groves and Tree Huggers" discussing the role of trees and religion for anyone interested.
To Viv: | 4:45 p.m. May 3, 2008
Seems you're looking for things not to like about LDS Sacrament Meetings. I agree they're less than perfect often and some talks can be down right annoying. But, church is learning ground. Most of those who've given talks get better, stronger and more confident as a result. Every talk I've ever given I figure has done more for me than others there. And, those kids that don't know how to be still are learning how to be still. I think you come away from Sacrament Meeting with about what you're looking to come away with. Try changing your attitude a little a look deeper. Maybe you'll feel something good.
Just me | 8:04 p.m. May 3, 2008
As for nature worship... I've discovered a trail that takes me to about 600 feet above the Tri-Cities and every time I hike it, it fills me with the joy of both nature and my community.
But I love to go to church. I love the children, especially the ones who struggle to be reverent. They are where they should be, and I should be loving them! If someone comes to church with a bad attitude, I pray they can be blessed for trying to do the right thing, and I realize that if they are to be blessed, it might need to be by me.
It's been a long time since I enjoyed going to church the same way I enjoy my hikes. But both experiences feed my soul, and I think that serving at church is how I praise my Lord and Savior. In the wilderness is not where I find the singlular joy of sharing His yoke.
But I love to go to church. I love the children, especially the ones who struggle to be reverent. They are where they should be, and I should be loving them! If someone comes to church with a bad attitude, I pray they can be blessed for trying to do the right thing, and I realize that if they are to be blessed, it might need to be by me.
It's been a long time since I enjoyed going to church the same way I enjoy my hikes. But both experiences feed my soul, and I think that serving at church is how I praise my Lord and Savior. In the wilderness is not where I find the singlular joy of sharing His yoke.
Love a tree as thyself | 10:02 p.m. May 3, 2008
To many of the "activists" up here in Washington state the Environment is God.
Things can get a little bit kookie at times but for the most part, if you don't feed them or poke them with a stick, they're relatively harmless.
Things can get a little bit kookie at times but for the most part, if you don't feed them or poke them with a stick, they're relatively harmless.
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