So the mother is an adult, so what? Let her go back to the ranch with the other adults, but keep the baby in custody, along with all the other babies who have already been removed from the YFZ ranch. This baby, and any other baby born in the near future to any other adult woman from YFZ is in no less danger of abuse than all the other children who have already been removed. This baby deserves the same level of protection, and any other baby born to any adult woman from the ranch from now until the community is declared safe for children should be removed immediately.

Well,well, CPS ISN'T infallible!! The rest of the case is just as bad based on make believe evidence.

The state is going to hold her child?? Based on what?? There can't be any possible "abuse" of this baby.
This gets harder to stomach as the case develops.

Someone posted that they thought they would deem her an adult then rip her baby away... They were right. This is sick. Immediate danger to the physical safety of the child (one of the four criteria)? I hope the judge is not Walthers....

It doesn't matter that she was telling the truth and was an adult all along (though Texas authorities insisted all along that she was underage). Who was lieing?

Of course she's not an adult until Texas authorities certify that she's an adult!

What does this say about the other cases where Texas is insisting pregnant FLDS women are lieing and are really underage? How many adult women do you think they are holding till Texas authorities can certify they are adults?

And it doesn't matter if they are adults or not anyway, they just get to go through their pregnancy knowing the state is just waiting to take their unborn child.

Way to go Texas! Your my hero!

This is soooo sad. I can't imagine how that would feel to have my newborn taken from my arms, not able to nurse or bond with them. I agree with Texas and what they are doing, but this? I thought it was children 5 and above that were put into custody.

Information only - Anyone with an open CPS case with their other child(ren) in custody can expect to have their newborn taken immediately into the foster care system. That is standard procedure across the country.

Does Texas really think they can care for this baby better then the mother? Is the State knowing what is best? They should be thinking of the child. How in heaven's name can they think that the infant is better off in an institution over the care of a loving mother! Shame on Texas again!

I wonder how many days it's been before this hearing today that they've known they're illegally incarcerating an adult?

They need to pickup the cowardly men and take them into custody and let the woman go back to the compound. My opinion is that the FLDS men are NOT REAL MEN! They are pussy foot cowards! And using God for their little religious cult is extremely disgusting! God has nothing whatsoever to do with their warped little sex cult.

To California Foster Mom-

Who cares what "standard procedure" is? This is by no means a standard case. The women are victims and they are being treated like criminals. I deplore what is going on at YFZ ranch but it is barbaric to take newborns away from their mothers because they are part of a strange religion. Let the women and children be! Lock up the men!

Protect ALL the Children - Can I have CPS remove any newborn children in your house because you may be stupid?

Why isn't CPS taking inner city newborns from their mothers who aren't providing for them properly in their minds?

Do you think it's appropriate to confine the newborn and the mother in a CPS office? That hardly sounds like a decent location for a newborn. Can we charge CPS with abuse?

Yea, tear a newborn away from its mother. Even if she gets it back in a month or two her milk will have dried up, and the bonding window past.

For the second time in my life, Texas is giving me a lesson on what pure evil is.

"Information only - Anyone with an open CPS case with their other child(ren) in custody can expect to have their newborn taken immediately into the foster care system. That is standard procedure across the country."

It shouldn't be. The CPS system needs a major overhaul. The sort of thing happening here--the governor using CPS to destroy a religion--is unconstitutional and un-American.

Re - Anonymous "Who cares what "standard procedure" is?"

I believe the people most likely to care are the other expectant FLDS women. Whenever CPS has a standard procedure it is much harder to fight.

This is unconstitutional in various ways:

1. Cruel and unusual punishment for parents and baby.

2. Guilt established by mere association, no real evidence of danger for the baby, no real trial, no innocence unless proven guilty; etc.

I understand having standard procedures, this is not a standard case though. This is horrid. If you must - take them both into custody. This child has a right to be breastfed and bond with his mother.

I do not abide by 'child brides' or polygamy, but I believe this mother and baby deserve not to be separated.

Where is the lawyer? I would be immediately filing on this.

Both the CPS and the FLDS have strategies. In this case, CPS holds pregnant adolescents whether adults or children in disputed custody. They give birth and the babies can be held. Otherwise, if they are adults, they are on the ranch like the rest of the adults. They would give birth at the ranch. The existence of the babies wouldn't even be known to CPS. If it did become known, CPS would obtain a court order and enter the compound and seize the infant and possibly the mother with the offer that they could stay together, but the mother would not be in custody and would be free to go. This would be a mess, because this time the FLDS would photograph the event and broadcast it.

In the second birth, CPS expected to move the mother and infant back to San Angelo where Barbara Walther would put the infant into CPS custody. The husband is trying to get his wife, infant and two children out of custody by showing that the wife is an adult and they are a monogamous family. He got a restraining order against CPS that kept the wife in Austin, a liberal area.

I believe the plan all along was to get the child.
with the woman identified as a child CPS had custody in order to have easy access to the newborn.

They knew she was of age....it was just a manuver to skirt the system......this whole affair is an excuse to bust a cult without the normal restrictions placed on law enforcement.....use the CPS

I feel for this 18-year-old mother, but the sad truth is this group needs to start negotiating pronto with the Texas authorities. They need to A) assure that underage girls will finish school, be given the choice to go to college and not told they will go to hell if they don't marry young. B) Agree to allow authorities to monitor their living arrangements so parents take responsibility for their own kids not shuffle them off to another household. C) Quit having sex with minors. D) Take responsibility for their male children until they turn 18 and provide opportunities for higher education. E) Adhere to child labor laws. F) Face up to the fact that polygamy is illegal and agree to follow the law of the land and not the law of disgraced Warren Jeffs.
In return they can get their families back. They are stubborn and will need to take some drastic measures to keep their children. Hopefully someone in FLDS power will receive a revelation soon to take responsibilty for their situation. All religions have history of adapting to society's will. They can adapt too.

Hey 1:27, King George gives his approval of your master plan.

The Monarchy, or the Rightful Steward and Owner of all children, has the sole discretion when it comes to the often abstract notion of child "protection." If there is any question in the matter, it's best to take the children away. Something "might" happen to them.

After all, it's not like mothers have a fundamental human right to their own flesh-and-blood offspring (and vise-versa). Right?

Ah, how fervently we do believe. Unless we legislate public schools, vaccinations, 3-a-day, mainstream synthetic medicine, and secularized religion, we risk losing the Royal Culture, the One True Way!

Thomas Jefferson is turning over in his grave.

Judged by some standard, maybe our plans for other people's lives are better and safer than their own plans. But the whole point of America was to allow individuals and communities the liberty to figure all that out for themselves without government meddling. It lends human meaning to mere existence.

If there is law-breaking, let's demand more than prank calls as evidence. Suspicion and mistrust aren't good enough.

Seriously, some of you are just as bad as the religious wackos that you persecute.

So the Texas CPS commies are wrong again... screw-up after screw-up. What a horrible fiasco. Yes, take all their children away from them... the nazis were the last ones to pull that trick. The vast majority of the FLDS people are completely innocent of any crime. Texas has still not identified any crimes committed, any victims and no perpetrators. The Texas authorities could be spending their time much better by chasing real criminals, and Texas has plenty of crimes being committed all day long. There are few if any real criminals among the FLDS. Texas CPS however, has committed countless crimes against these people.

Well, this sounds like a clear case of wrongful imprisonment. CPS had no right to hold this pregnant woman in the first place. She has legal documentation showing that she is not a minor, which they and Judge Walthers chose to ignore as "likely forged". Now that they have the child, it's suddenly clear to them that she is an adult??

C'mon Gal50 and others who defend Texas CPS. How far will you watch these authorities go down this unethical path before you become the least bit quesy? I've been sick to my stomach for the last few weeks.

Are the children better off in the custody of CPS? In Phoenix a CPS supervisor is accused of sexually molesting a 4 year old girl and two teenage boys. Under Texas logic, all CPS supervisors must be abusing children. Right?

All the religous bigots trying to support the Texas Authorities ought to have all their children taken away before they can train their children to be bigots.

The really amazing thing to me is that the vast majority of the good citizens of Texas haven't stormed the court houses in outrage at the unAmerican activities of the authorities. Patriotism must be dead in Texas.

I think that slave owners used to justify their ownership of other human beings on the basis of it being for the welfare of the slaves. The current arguements about the supposed welfare of the children sound remarkably similar and equally hollow and stupid.

If there were crimes committed by anyone FLDS, prosecute them according to the law. Otherwise, bug off and pay up. The temple that the coming settlement(s) will pay for should really be grand.

So the mother is just 18 how hold was she when she got pregnant and they discuss her husband she is just 18.. how old was she when she said I DO
these are questions that need answers

Some questions for you:

If I refuse to pay for my daughters and sons to go to college, should the state take all my children away?

If I refuse to stop teaching my kids something you or the state doesn't like, should the state take all my children away?

I agree with some of your points - people should be required to obey the law. But you go to far.

If CPS doesn't act now, they might never find the child again, and then where would they be. Until it is established that the baby is returning to a safe place, the baby should be in custody. Don't know what planet y'all are from, but abuse seems pretty obvious even without what CPS has dug up.

In earlier posts I have expressed concern about issues of constitutional law. There also appears to be a strong case for damages against Texas and the CPS for false imprisonment and intentional infliction of emotional distress. Further, if the civil rights of members of this group have been violated, those individuals acting under the government's authority, not just the government, can be personally liable to the victims for damages including actual damages, attorneys' fees and treble damages. A person cannot simply say that she was just doing her job or just following policy. I still doubt whether the state courts can do justice in these cases. They should get into federal court as soon as possible.

According to the Texas Department of Statistics,

* Every 10 minutes a teen in Texas gets pregnant
* Every 10 hours a 14 year old gets pregnant
* Every 3 hours a 15 year old gets pregnant
* Every 1.5 hours a 16 year old gets pregnant
* Every 52 minutes a 17 year old gets pregnant
* Every 10 minutes a teen gives birth
* Every 48 minutes a teen has an abortion

Where is Texas housing those 52,560 babies that are born to teenagers - every year? Surely, by law, they have the obligation to protect those babies. Surely the people of Texas won't sit back and let those mothers keep their children. Surely Nevada's Senator Reid will demand that something be done to stop that kind of illegal nonsense, just as he has demanded that the FLDS be stopped. After all, if people in Nevada want to have sex with a young lady to whom they are not married, they have to pay for it!

Where are our elected Congressmen when the rights of the FLDS are being trampled? Those FLDS mothers and their children are CITIZENS! Those Congressmen have sworn an oath to protect ALL citizens!

A girl can get married or have unmarried relations with men at 17 in Texas without parental permission. What's your point?

why didn't these women claiming to be adults provide proof of age previously? I'm sick of the bleeding hearts saying these "poor moms" are being treated like criminals...polygamy/bigomy etc IS illegal therefore ther ARE criminals. it is what it is

If the polygamists want their children, they must agree to stop teaching them to break the law, which is to marry into polygamy. If they decline to sign such a document, then the children should be adopted out to families who will give them a real future. Something must be done to stop polygamy in its tracks right now. Otherwise, we'll have millions of polygamists in 100 years where now we have just 20,000 or so. Children deserve more attention than a father with 50 kids can offer.

Every child born in Texas should be turned over to CPS until the government can determine the safety of the home and the parent’s ability to live by Texas standards. Really? Prove yourself worthy and then you can keep your kids. WOW!

This woman went from a 'victim of FLDS' as a minor, to a 'child abuser' as an adult in one swift stroke of the CPS pen.

This does not make any sense! If she was a person, suffering from abuse one minute, she cannot be the abuser the next. Give her her baby back!

She is the 'victim of CPS' on both counts.

hmmm | 2:58 p.m. May 13, 2008

Where have you been. Texas does not believe the Drivers License or birth certificates!

If you look like a minor, you are a minor. Thats it.

She may be 18 but this is her second child, her first is almost. So that means she was married at 15, at least. Kind of hard for them to claim they don't have underage marriages. These moms don't protect their children, they allow them to be "married" off to whatever geezer they tell them to. They're first obligation is to their "prophet" not their family.

Some of them did show proof of age - drivers licence, birth certificate. CPS and Judge Walthers concluded that these were forged. Now that they have the baby, suddenly they realize that the woman is an adult??

Lies, unethical practices and disregard for constitutional rights do not raise my esteem for Texas CPS or the Texas State court system. I suggest that anyone who is the least bit different think seriously about moving out of Texas.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's have Congress have some hearings, so CPS and the FLDS both can lie and get nothing done.

Set the women and children free. Lockup the FLDS deviates who indeed are the FLDS men. This whole FDS story is relatively a permanent disorder of the minds of these men and needs to be stopped, and the sooner the better.

I'll buy your argument if you'll agree with this: Something must be done to stop the serial polygamy going on this country. Any man that has children with more than one woman out of wedlock should be arrested and charged with a crime. He should also be forced to take care of and provide quality time to all of his children. The children of such unions should be immediately rounded up from their mothers and taken into state custody until we can be certain that they will be raised by families that can give them a "real future".

Are you game for that? If not, then your argument is a house of cards.

Last I knew was that nursing mother could stay with their babies until they where 12 months old. Therefore this new mother can stay with her new baby.

from Wikipedia:

"The Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act was signed into law on July 8, 1862 by President Abraham Lincoln. Sponsored by Justin Smith Morrill of Vermont, the act banned plural marriage and limited church and non-profit ownership in any territory of the United States to $50,000.[1] The act targeted the Mormon church ownership in the Utah territory. The measure had no funds allocated for enforcement, and President Lincoln chose to leave the Mormons alone."

If Abraham Lincoln choose to leave the Mormons alone, the Texas authorities could choose to leave the FLDS alone as well. But they haven't, and have sent the CPS after them in a desperate and poorly planned witch hunt. Their case is becoming unraveled bit by bit, and all of the innocent children have been abused as a result of their actions, and in spite of the fact that CPS on shaky constitutional grounds to begin with.

With CPS as well as any other GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY you are always guilty until proven innocent. Oh, doesn't that violate the Constitution? Oh, I forgot - they are all exempt!!!!

Wrong and right vs. legal and illegal, there is a lot of things that are illegal that are not wrong, and a lot of things that are wrong that are not Illegal, it’s up to every Individual to make the call

These prisoner of religion camps have to be shut down and their victims rescued by whatever means is necessary. I can't believe what a bunch of weenies Utahns turn into when religion or a 'family' is involved. Families, like these, are the most dysfunctional, damaging environment that there is for someone to grow up in. Yet we convey the rights of parenthood to people who are too mean, stupid or lazy to be allowed to raise houseplants, just because they have reproductive capabilities.
We'd be taking a way stronger moral stand to let Hef build a playboy mansion in provo and call it a religious compound than to support these thugs.

Once again we find that the majority of those responding here provide half-truths and partial information to make their points. With probable cause Texas CPS went into a situation that the members of the FLDS would not help to explain or resolve. None of the FLDS people would simply sit down and explain who belonged to which families with the authorities. This problem could have been resolved as soon as it started. The men from the FLDS sect are anything but truthful and do not stand up and take responsibility. What a religion/faith that supports evading the truth at all costs. The DNA tests will help to patch this mess together, but it will take time. It will be interesting to see what these kids think after they have experienced some time outside the closed world they were in. It is interesting what a little knowledge can do for your perspective.

It appears most people want vigilante justice based upon what they've heard about these folks, when in reality who gives us the right to judge based only upon one sided stories. If you ask me, I am more apt to believe the FLDS folks than the spite filled hate mongers that was once FLDS folks themselves but left with a grudge. Man, I sure wouldn't want you to hear about me from the fellow I had to fire for fiddlin' around on the job. He'd be so damned convincing that I was a scoundrel, my own wife would probably believe him.
Some of them folks is thought to be strange, a tad weird based on today's standards, but I bet we are a heck of a lot weirder in their eyes too. Will Rogers used to say, "All I know is what I read in the papers," but that logic don't work no more because most the stuff in the papers ain't based on truth, only on selling a story. So if we all put our prejudices aside and wait for the outcome of this sad news story, maybe we all are in a surprise.

So why not do the Christian thing and give them folks the benefit of the doubt? Remember the "theory" called presumption of innocence? It's something we are proud of America here. So, in my eyes, these folks are all innocent because if we condemn anyone based upon the testimonies of only their enemies, America might as well go down the flusher, because half the world hates America and thinks we are the same as the devil. But do you all think we are? You want to convince them foreigners differently? Might lose your head trying.

So how 'bout we all work on cleaning up our own back yards afore we start worrying about the neighbor’s. I tell you one thing, I see way more teens screwing around and drugging and stealing and killing babies than those FLDS folks could ever dream about. There’s more teenaged hookers in Dallas hopping old men than you’d care to know about. Now there’s some serious problems we ought to be tackling.
Now let’s get back to basics folks and rush those babies back to their mamas.

It is clear that error and rumor still have a persuasivc hold on the minds of many today. The FLDS did meet the requirements of the CPS withholding nothing for proof and identity requirements. CPS is not the only "guilty" party here. State police went way overboard and became a armed Gestopo - yet ultimately the judge is the top criminal in this matter. What she has done in upholding CPS is criminal because of the lives of innocent children have been harmed and damaged. This has been referred to from her as " Cattle Call." This is offensive and insensitive. The parents of these children should not have to suffer further with the demeaning and slandarious comments. This situation needs addressed on an emergency basis and corrected immediately. There is but only a few persons of any value that could stand the pressure these parents are under. Stay open minded Utah - prejudice has been your fate and heritage for many, many years.

To California Foster Mom,
It's because of insensitive foster parents like you who care more about "standard procedures" than human beings that I could never think that those kids will be better in foster homes than with their own mothers. A foster mom could never compare to a mom. Return those children to their real mothers!!!!!