Well Malcolm its like this. Mormon was a nick name given to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints when it was first organized. So it has always been accociated with the LDS Church. The Re Organized Church of Jesus Christ as far as I know never used the nickname and has since changed its offical name. Still believe Joseph was a prophet. The Church of Christ dosn't us the mormon nick name. But also decided Joseph was a fallen prophet. So we now come to the splinter groups who split off after the church settled Utah and after the menifesto. They only really believe one element that was once tought in the church. But when they are called "Mormons" The world at large dosn't think of them, they think of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which is wrong. Just as all those who broke off from the Catholic church don't want to be confused with it or the Cathlic church not wanting to be confussed with Baptist, Methidist, or Church of England.
Clear enough?
But I think you already understood all this.

Let the anti comments begin.....

Because, Malcolm, no one is going to confuse a Lutheran for a Methodist or for a Catholic or for any number of recognized Christian faiths. People recognize there are numerous Christian denominations (except for evangelicals, who only recognize themselves), but people recognize only one Mormon faith.

Being christian defines a group of religious believers but not a particular
church organization. When someone labels you a mormon it implies that you are a member of the mormon church, a specific organization.

Those who claim that LDS are not christians also claim that if a person doesn't accept Christ in this life, they will burn in hell forever and this from a loving and all powerful God.

Either these people are wrong, or god is a monster worse than Osama Bin Ladin.

I have non christian relatives from the Orient. They are good people. If these so called "christians" are correct about god, then god is certainly the designer of a terrible way to run a universe.

I think that one could argue that the LDS church is closer to the FLDS church, than the LDS church is to mainstream Christians

Maybe that is why the Prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley said that we should refer to ourselves as members of the LDS Church rather than Mormons.

Then all protestants (which are splinter groups from the Catholic church should also be called Catholics since they believe in the Bible also....... Your reasoning is flawed! Try again

Every player in the religious game stakes out their position based on the same proof...absolutely none. Oh, they'll carry on about how it sayeth this and that but clearly people can and do use vague, cryptic religious texts to support pretty much any agenda they want. Yet they all claim exclusive truth.
That's why any one outfit can call itself what it wants, and define others by their incorrectness.
Hasn't it all made the world a better place?

FLDS does not beleive book of mormon particularly Jacob were he says Polygamy is not alright unless God says so. Beleive dead prophet on that one.

I can assure you anonymous 3:33 -
there are a MULTITUDE of reasons for the "anti" comments (as you like to put it) to begin.

This is to be expected when a group of people try so hard to set themselves apart from the rest.

Get used to it.

There are mormons and then there are "Utah mormons".
The latter please stay in Utah.

One could argue your point, Liberal Larry, but one can also argue that dogs have hair, and men have hair, therefore dogs are men. Some more ardent feminists might argue the reverse, but in any case, they would still be wrong, and so are you. Your bias is evident in your attempt to link the two "mormon" elements, as it has been in the past.

It is interesting how we mortals insist on defining the other person, rather than letting them define themselves. While I understand the nuances expressed in the above comments, I understand Malcolm's point. When I, as a Mormon, claim to be Christian, then I am. The same with the FLDS. If they claim to be Mormon, in the context of how they define it, so be it. They are Mormon. If a group who at one time was "Mormon" and now decides to define themselves as 'non-Mormon', so be it. It is their right and I respect their choice.

The world would be a better place if people and groups were allowed to define themselves rather than have it done for them. Day after day, someone will write a letter telling us all what someone else (or some other group) thinks. You dont know what I think. If I tell you what I think then feel free to quote me but short of that, you just dont know. Tell us your thoughts, not what you assume someone else thinks.

I think it could be argued that comments like Larrys are closer to intolerance than tolerance

Liberal Larry,
You really do not know what you are talking about. The only thing the organization has in common is that one practiced (as in past tense) and one currently practices polygamy.

There doctrine is different, their beliefs is different. They may use the same book of mormon (not sure they do).

The LDS Church is closer to Mainstream Christians more than people want to admit. The problem is, Main Stream Christians do not believe it.

Since all Catholics, Methodists and Episcopals, etc believe in the Old Testament - then they must be Jews

labels, labels, and more labels.

Such depth of thinking!

Living outside of utah I've had to explain the difference between the nickname "Mormon" and latter day saints, or LDS constantly. A lot of people dont know the difference, and it can cause confusion, but there are a lot more that know the difference than in years before.

Ok,

I like your comment. May I steal it?

I wish we would let everyone label themselves as they choose, including countries. It would be so much easier if everyone in the whole world called the United States the United States, instead of something like "Estados Unidos".

I would love to call Spain "Espana" and Germany "Dutchland". It would just eliminate so much confusion.

Why can't we call everyone whatever they choose to be called?

I find it perplexing that most mainstream Christians don't consider the LDS to be Christian. Perplexing. But I don't really care very much.

I also find it perplexing that some people can't understand the simple reality that "Mormon" is historically a nickname for the LDS Church. Literally it may seem that any who reads and/or believes in the BofM would be a "Mormon," but that just hasn't historically been the meaning.

Those who think it's exclusionary to want to avoid calling the FLDS Mormons ought to look at this way: is it OK to say that the FLDS are NOT them members of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Is that "defining them" against their will? No, it's stating a literal and concrete affiliation and membership. Mormon = LDS. LDS ≠ FLDS. Mormon ≠ FLDS.

But I guess if the FLDS really insist on calling themselves "Mormon," so be it. It's perplexing, but I really don't care that much.

I find it interesting that in the posts (both this one and previous opinions and articles) the same people argue the same things over and over and over and not one person changes the other's mind. Those who are against the LDS church are going to remain against it and continue to post negative things. Those who are for it will continue to try to explain and reason. I have seen both sides call names and both sides be idiots but as far as I can tell, no one changes their views as a result of what someone else has posted.
And personally, I think some of you need to actually get a life!

What a weak argument!

The FLDS believe God has told them to practice plural marriage through a prophet. That is compatible with Jacob in the BofM.

The LDS believe God once told their ancestors to practice plural marriage through a prophet and then another prophet told them not to. That is compatible with Jacob.

How you can claim the FLDS don't believe in Jacob is beyond me.

*** "Mormon was a nick name given to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints when it was first organized. So it has always been accociated with the LDS Church." ***

Therefore the Mormon nickname applies to the original church as well as ALL its descendants, of which the Salt Lake City church is only one, even if it's the largest. (Did you know that a court case foound that what used to be the RLDS Church was the legitimate descedant organization?)

*** The Church of Christ dosn't us the mormon nick name. But also decided Joseph was a fallen prophet. ***

The Community of Christ, not the Church of Christ.

*** "So we now come to the splinter groups who split off after the church settled Utah and after the menifesto. They only really believe one element that was once tought in the church." ***

Oh, really? They only believe in one element? They dn't believe in the Book of Mormon or D&C or Pearl of Great Price or any of that? Just the polygamy?

It seems people are getting mixed up in terminology here. To make valid comparisons between the Christian argument and the Mormon one, let's make some cmoparisons.

Christian = Mormon

Catholic, Baptist, etc. = Member of the LDS church

The first group is a general term used to describe a group of people with a particular belief system. Christians believe Jesus is their Savior, Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was a propher and the BofM is scripture.

The second group is specific to members of a particular religion. Unfortunately, LDS church members don't have a term for this. Historically, the term "Mormon" was used but that is a more generic term. The church is trying to get away from that now but it causes confusion with "Mormons" that belong to the FLDS church.

What we need is a good term for members of the LDS faith that isn't "Mormon" like Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, etc.

*** "Because, Malcolm, no one is going to confuse a Lutheran for a Methodist or for a Catholic or for any number of recognized Christian faiths. People recognize there are numerous Christian denominations (except for evangelicals, who only recognize themselves), but people recognize only one Mormon faith." ***

So other people's ignorance entitles you to exclusive possession to the terms "Mormon" and "LDS" (or any derivative thereof, like FLDS)?

Sorry but no. The other descendants of the original Mormon Church have as much right to those terms as you do.

After intensive study I stopped thinking of myself as a Mormon. Why doesn't the LDS Church accept I'm not Mormon and leave me alone?

For those of you "Salt Lake City Mormons" who don't want other varieties of Mormons to use the Mormon label:

I gew up a "mission field Mormon." (I am now ex-Mormon). If I had a dollar for every time Iw as told that Mormons aren't Christian, I would be a very rich man.

These splinter groups are a lot closer to the original LDS faith than the LDS faith is to Christianity.

What's good for the goose...

--- After intensive study I stopped thinking of myself as a Mormon. Why doesn't the LDS Church accept I'm not Mormon and leave me alone? ---

They won't let you leave with a letter to membership records (though they will stop pestering you). They expect you to "talk to your bishop."

No, I said. So I called it a day. I sent in my letter. I did my job. As far as I'm concerned the case is closed, and I'm no longer a member. The LDS Church can refer to me in any way it wants.

The truest definition of a Mormon is somebody who believes Joseph Smith commanded men to have many wives (or they can't get into heaven) and today thinks they are closer to God for not drinking coffee.

A quick perusal of the posts above explains why the early Mormons got booted out of every place they went.
Such blathering arrogance!

"Mormon" is a term outsiders use to refer to members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" and possibly many other people. So it is up to them to define what it means to them.

Personally, I'm pretty sure I know what they are trying to say when they use this term in reference to me or my church and most don't mean any offense by it and I choose not to take any offense from it.

I've noticed many in the media are gradually getting sensative to using the term "Mormon" (I guess someone told them it's no longer politically correct). I don't know if they can't remember the whole name of the church or if they are just uncomfortable saying it, but it usually comes out "Church of Latter-Day Saints" (heard that one several times in the past week or 2, most recently from the guy covering the Jazz game on TNT. The only thing that bugs me about that is... they leave out the most important part. Usually if you have to abreviate someone's name you leave in the most important part. In this case all they keep is the fluf. Just an observation.

Is it just me, or has anyone else who reads Anonymous' frequent comments learned to expect his pompus rants?

So today he gets out his broadest brush and accuses the Mormon posters of "blathering arrogance" (like he knows which posters are Mormon and is qualified to judge their level of arrogance).

I went back and re-read all the comments trying to be especially sensative to Arrogant Mormon posters and didn't see anything out of the norm for this forum.

From his posting I can tell he's a little hyper-sensative on this subject.

If I were qualified to judge everyone of any given faith and if I had to paint with a very broad brush, from my personal experience I would describe them as "Humble" not "Arrogant". But I can see how they could come off arrogant on some topics, especially depending on your perspective and the size of the chip on your sholder.

So Malcolm,

Are you then also suggesting that all Protestant religions are really Catholic?

He choses that name because he's embarased for anyone to know who he/she is. In response to "such blathering arrogance," one could say about him/her Such blathering ignorance.

If a person is a believer in Jesus Christ, that person is catholic.

Catholic means universal.

What you are referring to are groups thinking it important to set themselves apart from the original form of Christianity (through dunking instead of sprinkling, clergy marrying, etc.)

In the eyes of God they are STILL Catholic.

When it comes to defining what a Mormon is, it always gets down to this:

Either a person believes everything Joseph Smith told them - or they don't.

Because maninstream christians control the definition of a Christian, therefore they can alter it, to keep LDS people from being "Christians"

Who cares what they think? We worship Jesus Christ. End of story.

With deference to those of you who are anonymous but not anonymous, may I aver what I have many times before, "anonymous = chicken", as in throw out a caustic diatribe and then hide behind anonymous.
Yes, we should expect his/her constant back and sniping.stabbing

Why are we being encouraged to define people or a term used to classify a group of people (like the term Mormon)?

It's just a technique used to divide people.

Biggots use stuff like this to get us debating the definition of "Liberal", "Conservative", "Christian", various terms used to describe a person's ethnicity, etc. But is it a practice worth our time and effort?

I think our debating the definition of "Mormon" is counter-productive.

"The term Mormon is for outsiders"

And for anyone else who wants to same a little time when ever refering to the church.

No, no, no -
the term GENTILE is for outsiders.

And for anyone else who refuses to believe what Joseph Smith said.
(except for the seer stones - that DOES make a lot of sense)

Once again "eddidy" thinks because he has a rapper-like name that he uses on these anonymous blogs- he is not anonymous.

Can you say, FULL OF MYSELF, eddidy?

I'm fine with people nicknaming anyone who believes in the book of mormon a "mormon". As long as we label everyone who doesnt believe in getting blood transfusions a "JW".

I'd think it more appropriate to label a group by its basic tenants and beliefs. Which is where the FLDS and LDS vary.

Get over it already. You are what you call yourselves. I though LDS inc didn't like the term Mormon, now they want it all to themselves.
Fact is if you can't figure out which is which you are probably ignorant of those types of things. And if you are really concerned about what the people that are ignorant of your religion think... well, send out more missionaries to clarify your message.

Get over it already, if you praise and believe that Joe Smith was a prophet then that would make you mormon. You have separated yourselves both through culture and doctrine......