Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Stake president has no room in life for prejudice

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Ronald A. Young | 4:48 a.m. May 14, 2008
This is why we have Genesis Group.com The Church’s Official Black Website, and that they have their own leadership and monthly meetings. I assure you that some Priesthood Holders have managed to keep both their Priesthood and their Prejudice. I live in Hawaii perhaps the most diverse place for the Church in the Whole World. Some people cannot get passed thinking that Blacks carry the Mark Of Cain. This happened to me as late as two weeks ago in a F@T Meeting. Later I addressed it. Later still our Gospel Doctrines Teacher Addressed it. This attack did not come from a White Man but a full Blood Hawaiian 75 years old and a very dear friend. I am only 1/4 Black but I never went where my friends could not go. I did my share and sometimes more. In my Ward our Bishop is White Married to an Hawaiian, the 1st Counselor is Asian/Hawaiian, and the 2nd Samoan. The Stake President is Hawaiian. I have for the most part found the Prejudice strongest among less active or inactive members and Jack Mormons. I have often felt bad feelings and have had to repent sometimes mightily. Jesus Loves us all.
awesomeron | 5:06 a.m. May 14, 2008
Some People say that this Black Mormon and the Priesthood Issue is much over done. But it is not. The Church makes a great effort to put on its best face and does well for the most part. The First missionary went to England , others to the Islands Of The Sea. The Church has long sought people other then White people. I came around and joined in 1988 after I met my wife. I was Baptized and Married on the same evening. April 6, 1988 (yes I know now what date that is). We where sealed in the Mesa Temple about 14 months later. I remember clearly where I was when I learned three things. 1. When JFK Died. 2. When Elvis Died. 3. When I heard on the News about Blacks and the Priesthood. I did the same thing Mitt says he did. As a person who is 1/4 Black this subject is a Passion. For the 30th year I am sure the Church will bring out its best and brightest. Rightly so. I have found that the Journey of Being Black and Mormon is only as hard as we make it on Ourselves.
Anonymous | 7:44 a.m. May 14, 2008
WEther blacks are descendants of Cain or not does not matter because anscestory saves or damns no one. Jesus had some renegade anscestors. In his book straightforward answers to gospel questions Joseph Fielding McConkie on that answer said why are some couples denied children, some people spouses? Also why do some countries get the gospel before others. There was a ban for reasons known only to God. However he lifted it and blacks on both sides of the veil can receive the full blessings of the gospel.

As for marrying out of the church this one had a happy ending. But sadly for every convert that joined after marriage there is a good percentage that never join the church and blessings of exaltation are forfeited. Even though racial prejudice is done away with now never ever good to marry a member of another faith if you are lds.
Comments continue below
Jim in Ga | 8:10 a.m. May 14, 2008
Awesomeron: your last sentence could also read "the journey of being Black and American is only as hard as we make it on Ourselves". It's all about the individual as the bios of leading Black Men will prove.
Thank you for your comments
Tyrone | 8:53 a.m. May 14, 2008
I am a colored man in the Church. I appreciated the article and the struggles that we as colored folks sometimes have to face as members of the Church.
Confused | 8:54 a.m. May 14, 2008
I have a friend who is Mexican and he was married to a white mormon girl in Sandy, Utah. He converted to the LDS faith and he attended priesthood (sorry if that's not the correct term) but quit the church when he was told in those meetings that colored people could not reach the highest level of heaven in the after-life because of their color. I do not have a clue if he was telling the truth or not but he was very adamant and it was obviously a sore point to him. Is there any truth in his story or is it just bitterness ?

Thanks for your help
Larry | 8:59 a.m. May 14, 2008
This saddens me because it highlights that fact that we don't understand our own scriptures and don't exercise much common sense. If dark skin is a curse, then blacks, polynesians, latinos and every other person with any color to their skin is cursed. Does that make any sense? All members need to see "Blacks in the Scriptures" By Darius Gray and Marvin Perkins. They use the scriptures to answer all that we say we don't know. I was embarrassed when I saw it, because the answers have been in our scriptures the entire time and we're running around saying "we just don't know". All that we taught on this issue was wrong and we need to spend just as many years teaching the truths as we did teaching the false traditions, about 178 years. Thank you so much brothers Gray and Perkins!
jjohnsen | 9:01 a.m. May 14, 2008
I know President Parker well. He is a great man, who does many things for the church in Atlanta. He was Bishop in the Atlanta ward, when I was going to medical school there. We had much interaction because of the various callings that I had. I am very happy for him, and would not be surprised to see him called as a general authority one day. He is a very humble and hard working man. In fact, when he was bishop, he was not even living in the stake boundaries at the time, and had to commute almost 1 hour each way to get to the ward house. His kids have grown tremendously! What a great family! I wish him well in the service of the Lord!
Kathy | 9:17 a.m. May 14, 2008
See "Blacks in the Scriptures". Every member should see it.
Fritz | 9:18 a.m. May 14, 2008
Ronald A. and awesomeron: You are both awesome. My experience from knowing several black members is that they are some of the most faithful members I have known. I should be as faithful. I realize that generalities are generally wrong; there are likely some black members who are not very faithful, but there is no room for critisizm by my book. I too consider the day of "The Revelation" one of those bright days in my life. Even as a 17 year-old at the time I knew the day would come, and it was a joyeous day that it came so early in my lifetime.
As far as prejudice, I know there was a struggle among many members in the early days after the revelation on the priesthood. But now, after the words of President Hinkley, can there be any doubt about how the Lord feels about prejudice?
Houston,TX | 9:22 a.m. May 14, 2008
This is a very good article
Anonymous | 9:48 a.m. May 14, 2008
I lived in the Atlanta Stake when Pres. Parker served as a Bishop and counselor in the stake presidency. He is one of the most positive and enjoyable individuals I've ever been around. It is nice to see him praised for those attributes.
Morman-Man | 9:49 a.m. May 14, 2008
Question: What is a Jack-Mormon?
Re: Morman man | 10:53 a.m. May 14, 2008
The term "Jack-Mormon" was a term orginally coined by polygamists in the 19th century in the Church, referencing monogamists, apostates, and appeasers to the Territorial government. The term comes from a Jack-mule, which is a mule that has been castrated.
LeJamalle | 10:55 a.m. May 14, 2008
I am a black member and I am not as faithful as I could be although I am still active in my ward in Jacksonville Florida .. I converted to the church at the same time as Gladys Knight did but since then the church has done little to convert any other famous black stars .. why is that? I was hoping that she would be the first of many to realize the true faith. It just hasn't happened. Have we tried hard enough as a church?

Also, does anyone know if the late, great Tupac Shakur has been baptized by proxy yet .. is there any way to find out please?
Leonard | 10:57 a.m. May 14, 2008
My understanding is that a Jack-Mormon is someone who is a member of the Mormon church, but does not go to church and/or does not live the teachings of the church. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Rich | 11:18 a.m. May 14, 2008
Jack Mormon means somebody who has been baptized but does not live the standards of the church. A Jack Mormon might believe in church doctrine but does not have the moral strength to abstain from prohibited behavior, such as smoking, drinking, using drugs or sex outside marriage. Most Jack Mormons, however, pick and choose the doctrines they like. For example, they might believe the Book of Mormon but cannot accept advise to refrain from pornography and masturbation. Or perhaps they accept the church's strictures on living but cannot accept the 1978 revelation that blacks could hold the priesthood.

My philosophy is simple: Either Joseph Smith was a prophet, or he was the most intelligent and courageous fraud who ever lived. Either President Thomas S. Monson holds the keys to the priesthood or he does not. I believe everybody who sincerely reads the Book of Mormon and Bible and with an open heart asks God whether they are true will receive a confirmation by the spirit of God.

The real answer as to why it wasn't until 1978 that the priesthood was extended to people of all races when it was is simple: It was the Lord's time.
Craig | 11:21 a.m. May 14, 2008
The "Revelation" on the priesthood is debateable. It seems to me that the LDS leadership acted on pressure from within and without the LDS church to move in that direction. They pressured and kept pressuring the Lord (Supplicating the Lord for many hours in the upper most rooms of the temple) for some sort of revelation to have the Church move in that direction. I have no doubt that they felt the confirmation to move in that direction. They wouldn't settle for any other answer.
However, Brigham young warned what would happen to the church if they moved in that direction. Also he said the priesthood ban would not be lifted until after all the rest of Adam's posterity were raised up and would be full partakers of the blessings of the Priesthood.
Look on the heart | 11:27 a.m. May 14, 2008
Great Article! I truly admire the wisdom of this man and feel encouraged that he has not chosen to live life with a "chip on his shoulder" as would be very easy to do in a mainly white-skinned lead church. Prejudice should not exist among the members in any form, but it does. I hope we get more reminders that a true follower of Christ would look on the heart and not the appearance.
Bottom line | 11:59 a.m. May 14, 2008
Prejudice of any race is evil and wrong. There is nothing Godly or religious about being a bigot. Just as being arrogant, boastful, self praising as well, is unrighteous. Although, I'm certain Satan would disagree.
I just wonder if those who think they are so much better than everyone else, in or out of the church, think that they have a place in the celestial kingdom? I'm afraid no matter what a persons status might be within the LDS church, they will still be judged harshly by God for what is deep in their hateful hearts.
No celestial kingdom for people who hate, judge, gossip and lie about others.
Jill | 12:11 p.m. May 14, 2008
Wow. Polygamy becomes unpopular and Utah wants to be a state, "poof" a "revelation". Racist attitudes become unpopular and unacceptable in the Civil Rights area, "poof" a "revelation"...

All on the Lord's time... you people really will believe just about anything...

Start using logic and see the real truth about your religious beliefs...
A Great Man | 12:24 p.m. May 14, 2008
I knew President Parker when I served in the Atlanta Georgia mission in the mid 90's. At the time he was just an average member but always willing to go on splits - and he always bore his testimony to me as we went on splits and shared his conversion. Its incredible and humbling to see how the Lord has molded him and prepared him for the great leader he is now.
The Texan | 12:25 p.m. May 14, 2008
Just reading a small number of posts on here and I come to the conclusion too many of you are living on rumors and repeating the same.

Too many serve God as advisors. He doesn't advisors, thank you..
Joe | 12:58 p.m. May 14, 2008
I am a Black member of the LDS Church and I have to say that if it were not true, I would not be here. I have been confronted with mild to major racism and I feel sorry for each one of them and try to help them. I love my fellow brethren here, but they have been taught inequality and many don't even realize the extent of it. Brigham Young was wrong and did just the opposite of what Joseph Smith did. With that said, he, BY, was indeed the man the Lord chose to move his work forward, even with his imperfections. See D&C 1:24-29 where the Lord makes us aware, that He was aware that the leaders would make errors.
Kyle from AZ | 1:21 p.m. May 14, 2008
I would just like to thank craig for his amazing speculative insights and for reaching back over 100 years to the days of Brigham Young to try and make a point....by the way we have a prophet today and his name is Thomas Monson...we don't have to quote dead people when we have a leader who is living.
awesomeron | 1:24 p.m. May 14, 2008
Jim in Ga. I normally don't chase my Posts. However this topic is a Passion. You are right and I will use that and use it often. I learned my first lessons in that as a young teenager reading James Baldwin. Education is and always will be the way out and up, no matter what Color or Lack of Color you may be. This is why Gordon B. Hinckley started the Education Fund for Returned 3rd World Missionaries. People of Color not being able go to Heaven is not just in the Mormon Church. I spent 32 years as a Fundamentalist thrust me its in there also, which is one reason they have White Churches and Black Churches. I am so glad I obtained further enlightenment. I just ignore people like that and pray for them. Although that thought process is sick and wrong they may need it in order to help their self esteem as they may not have much else going for them. Some folks just have to have something the rest of use don't. God and Jesus said that all the servants will be well taken care of. Plus Grace after all that we can do.
John Lambert | 1:36 p.m. May 14, 2008
I appreciate this article very much. I had a bishop from Samoa once who had relatives in Independance.

My uncle is in the Atlanta Georgia Stake. So this is an article that hits home. So far in my home stake here in Michigan we only have one black man on the high council. However we did have a different black man on the high council in the past, and I have been to at least one temple session here where the officiator was a black man. We have one branch where the president is Haitian born and another two branches that have at times had African-American presidents.

To confused, there is no church teaching that people can not enter the highest degree of the celestial kingdom because of their color. beyond this the most relevant church teaching to your Mexican friend is probably that the Native Amrican peoples are in part descendants of the tribe of Manasseh and thus have a clear claim on the promises to the house of Israel.

On the other hand, it is possible that people either expressed the sentiment that he mentions, or something that he interpreted as such.
RE: Confused | 1:39 p.m. May 14, 2008
If your friend heard that anyone of color cannot receive the highest degree of glory it would have been from a rogue memeber who did not understand the gospel and the true nature of christ. All of mankind if they follow the gospel can be exalted. The church is true!
John Lambert | 1:42 p.m. May 14, 2008
Re:re:Mormon-man,

Actually the term Jack Mormon originally referred to those of other faiths in the area of Nauvoo who fought on the side of the church.

I am still not sure why such a bizarre question came up.

Another note of connetedness I have to President Parker, he like my parents were sealed in the Oakland Temple.

I do agree with jjohnsen that it would not be surprising if President Parker were called as a general authority, or maybe an area authority seventy. However, as Orson Scott Card pointed out in early April, the church needs good leaders at all levels. Not all men who are worthy of being an apostle can be called, since there are only 15 at a time. Seventy are not as limited, but there is a need for good men to serve in stake presidencies, temple presidencies and many other callings. It is not where we serve but how.
Thank you | 1:45 p.m. May 14, 2008
What an inspirational story. We can all learn lessons from this experience. We should all work to improve how we interact with members of other races.
Anonymous | 1:48 p.m. May 14, 2008
If curses are related to skin pigment are all my freckles little curses?
John Lambert | 1:53 p.m. May 14, 2008
To Craig,

If you want you can debate anything being a revelation. However you must face up to the strong testimonies of it being a revelation from such men as Gordon B. Hinckley, and the evidence that Spencer W. Kimball sought the Lord's guidance long and hard on the matter.

You can call these men liars and decievers if you want, but you should at least recognize and deal with their statements and not try to reject the revelation's coming from God by ignoring testimony that suggests that it was a very powerful revelation.
Craig | 3:52 p.m. May 14, 2008
To John Lambert

It seems to me that either Brigham Young was misled or Spencer Kimball was misled. I choose to believe Brigham Young.

God said he would send strong delusions if we do not receive the love of the truth. Men want the gospel to fit their personal preference of what is equitable and fair and not what God desires. But I believe Brigham Young taught gospel truth even though many Ladder Day Saints and modern evangicals find his teachings "offensive" because it doesn't fit into their notions of what is "Righteouss". Yea let God be true if every man a liar.
John Lambert | 3:56 p.m. May 14, 2008
Re: Confused,

Your friend may have had the misfortune to have been in the same ward as one of the previous posters on this discussion board. It would not surprise me in the least if he had said such a thing.

OK, that might be a bit overbearing on my part but when someone values the word of long dead prophets more that the words of living prophets, and when someone makes statements on what the ancestry of people was that have no basis in scripture than I question them.

What seems to be beyond doubt true is that Jesus was at least in one line descended from Ham. Actually probably both by Tamar and Rahab. I do think Darius Grey goes a bit far in assuming that either Tamar or Rahab would have phenotipical black features, but I do think it is beyond doubt that Jesus had ancestry that went back to Ham.
re:John Lambert | 4:00 p.m. May 14, 2008
You are right John. There are many in the ward who could serve as a general authority if called.I think Russ Stebar would make a great general authority.
Tim | 4:19 p.m. May 14, 2008
I'm glad we were finally able to convince God that withholding the Priesthood from Blacks for over 100 years was wrong. I'm glad God was willing to learn from us and finally come around, repent, and give them the priesthood. With enough time, we can teach God how to be a moral and ethical God!
Clark | 4:49 p.m. May 14, 2008
In talking about blacks receiving the priesthood, Craig 11:21 said, "Brigham Young warned what would happen to the church if they moved in that direction."

I would like to know where this statement is found, because I've never heard it before, not even from an LDS critic.

I'm not calling you a liar, Craig. I would just like to know the origin of the statement.
Craig | 5:06 p.m. May 14, 2008
To John Lambert

There you go John... castigated the "Long Dead" Prophets.
The Catholics feel that the Pope's doctrinal word is infallible. He is the current Mouthpiece of the original Church that Christ established afterall. So if we are to heed the word's of current leaders over past leaders maybe we should all convert to the Catholic Church.

There is a current fallicy that run's rampant among the rank & file Ladder-day saints. "The Lord will not permit the "Prophet" to lead the church astray".
So rest assured we can always trust in the President's arm of flesh... Phooey!
The Book of Mormon warns us of such foolishness.
Chris Plummer | 6:05 p.m. May 14, 2008
what a feel good story
awesomeron | 6:56 p.m. May 14, 2008
In the early 90's when I was taking classes at the Thatcher Institute of Religion attached to Eastern Arizona College. A 2 year School then that played Football and other sports with Rick’s College. Now BYUI and EAC is a 4 year school now. I took my first Computer Class at EAC on an IBM that would now not even be considered a toy. I did not go to Institute to get a Diploma, I had my own business and the Key and made the time. I took 2 classes then 2 more and about 3 years later I got a letter in the Mail come to Graduation. Anyhow we took up this Subject of Priesthood and Race and Blacks Holding The Priesthood and being in the Church for many years even doing Missions with out the Priesthood. One of my Daughters now 17 is named after one such person. My Instructors bottom line answer was "we where right by Revelation then and We are right by Revelation Now." Period get over it. I did some Elijah Able family line Temple Work when I lived in the Portland Or, Temple area in the late 90's.
John Lambert | 7:00 p.m. May 14, 2008
Craig,

Do you believe that Thomas S. Monson is the one man on the earth who holds all the keys?

My other statement, is that it is not that dead prophets are wrong. It is that their word was given in a different time in language to different men. I do not believe that Brigham Young said what you allege he said. He did appearantly say something in relation to the children of Cain not recieving blessings until the children of Able recieved blessings. This may be true, but Brigham Young may have been wrong in thinking Able had no children. Perhaps Seth married a daughter of Able or in some other way Noah was a maternal descendant of Able.

Also I think it is fairly documented that if we trace all of Jesus' ancestry some of it will go back to Ham. Wheteher Ham's wife was a descendant of Cain, I do not know, but if she was not I am not sure how you are going to argue Cain's seed was preserved in the land. (I am not going to argue that happened.) I have a few other thoughts.
John Lambert | 7:08 p.m. May 14, 2008
God's ways are not our ways.

The fact that Elijah Able held the priesthood during the entire presidency of Brigham Young and served as a missionary during the presidency of John Taylor complicates Craig's arguments.

The fact that in the 1930s people in Filmore, Utah of KNOW African ancestry were ordained to the priesthood on the grounds that their African ancestry was not enough to exclude them also complicates matters.

However, the main problem with following dead prophets is not that their words are given to another generation. The problem is that the interpretation of what someone meant is complexed. It is not just that you need to follow the counsel of the living prophet, but you need to heed what he says now. It is no less bad to denounce Thomas Monson and his associates in 1978 for not following the ways of Brigham Young than it is to denounce Thomas Monson for not following what you feel was the meaning of a message he gave in 1963 as he operates today.

How are we supposed to preach the gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue and people with a large protion of the population denied the priesthood.
caroline | 10:01 p.m. May 14, 2008
A great story, I am thankful for the gospel. It did change my life a lot. I believe in God's revelations and I am proud that I am a member and can participate in the Church.
Lynn | 10:47 p.m. May 14, 2008
Craig, it's very simple: We believe in continuing revelation. Article of Faith 9 states, very plainly, "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."

What is the instrument God uses to proclaim His continuing revelations? I refer you to a scripture from the Bible: Amos 3:7, which states, "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

God's instrument, his mouthpiece, at any given time, is the living prophet.

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