Reader comments: Is congestion pricing answer to gas woes?

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liberal larry | 7:01 a.m. May 18, 2008
Tolls are an excellent idea, the people who use the roads should pay for them. I think this will meet with a lot of resistance from the conservatives. They seem to want to defer the costs they are accruing to other people. Good examples are education, where people with large families pay the least in taxes, and Bush's irresponsible spending on his mis-guided war.
COSMO | 7:39 a.m. May 18, 2008
Again Liberal Larry regales us with his "Marxist Theology", and then follows up with a barrage of hate venting towards families and don't forget the good old, "Bush Bash".
AS for the "Marxist Toll Tax", it is after all,just
another tax, upon an already over taxed people.
As Will Durant,in his history of Rome so clearly stated that,..."Expanding bureaucracy, parasitic courts,depreciation currency,confiscatory taxation,
absorption of investment capital, along with a host
of other abuses by the elite, brought mighty Rome to
ruin. This is another tax em scam!
Ultra Bob | 7:54 a.m. May 18, 2008
Congestion pricing would be OK if it takes into account the weight and mileage of the vehicle. And all vehicles be taxed at the same rate per pound of weight/milage.

Actually this sounds to me like another way for the corporations to transfer the wealth from ordingary people into the pockets of their owners. It seems to me as if the people who complain about taxes the most are those who are constantly trying to figure out ways to make the other guy pay all the taxes.
Comments continue below
Dave | 8:04 a.m. May 18, 2008
We wouildn't need more taxes for highways if we took the enviro-wackos out of the loop. We spend millions of tax dollars on Eviromental impact studies, and then still end up in court because a i wasn't dotted. Just look at the legacy highway fiasco.
not just the freeway | 9:07 a.m. May 18, 2008
The problem with this solution is that it is not just the freeway that is congested. Putting congestion pricing on the freeway will just force (or incentivize) people on to the already crowded surface streets.

We all have been to the local mall (or tried to go!) during the Christmas buying season. How would that be congestion priced? Try going west from I-15 anywhere and its virtual gridlock.

As gas prices have soared, people are changing their dirving habits. A hike in the gas tax or a surcharge on vehicle registrations will have the same effect.

Congestion pricing may not be a perfect solution, but it is an interesting start.
uncannygunman | 9:10 a.m. May 18, 2008
Let's not forget that this type of toll system would likely lead to transponders in every vehicle (or great inconvenience for those who declined) such that the government would essentially be tracking every vehicle all the time on major roads. No thanks (and it doesn't sound particularly libertarian either!).

Interesting point about the gas tax losing its effectiveness. The problem is, whatever you replace it with is also going to be a tax/toll/fee. Whatever you call it, people aren't going to like it! So I say be honest, call it a tax, and find some way to implement it that maximizes fairness but is minimally intrusive.

Mileage tax paid at registration? Tax on commuters? Increased taxes based on vehicle weight? HEAVY tax on new tires? Once you get over aversion to the word "tax," the possibilities are endless!
HORSES | 10:04 a.m. May 18, 2008
Or we can just force everyone to walk or ride bikes like in old China or Cambodia or ... oh wait they drive cars now. Its funny how much publicity the minority get in their complaint of the traffic and the like. I really don't notice the traffic. How many other folks are ok with it? Go Horses!
Roland Kayser | 11:48 a.m. May 18, 2008
Contrary to what the article states, average fuel economy for our nation's auto fleet has actually declined since the 80s.
Real Conservatives should... | 1:50 p.m. May 18, 2008
Congestion pricing is a conservative idea. It requires people to bear the cost of their behavior. Remember, when a new highway is expanded, it is because the the capacity can't handle peak load or "rush hour". Basically, we spend billions to accommodate a few hours a day when we can't handle the traffic. The next best option is the gas tax. These aren't liberal tax grabs, but responsible ideas for funding our needs. We are tens of billions short for funding roads over the next 20 years. We are in this position because voters and politicians have irresponsible and not made sure our funds keep up with our growth.
lvtfan | 5:47 p.m. May 18, 2008
Seems like a user fee to me, and seems quite legitimate. I like that it creates incentives to buy fuel-efficient vehicles. (And therefore for auto manufacturers to produce them.) But poor people end up with the cast off low-mpg cars, and they stay on the roads for years, with good maintenance. And I hate to see them burdened.

But there is another revenue source that ought to be considered. When we build a highway it creates far more land value than the construction costs (assuming that the project was worth doing in the first place). Shouldn't the benefited landholders cover some of the costs? OR should we just give them a generous gift and charge someone else? (Yes, the latter approach is traditional. That doesn't make it right or smart or wise or just or logical.)
Tolls no Gas Tax yes | 11:03 p.m. May 18, 2008
Tolls to drive a specific road are a terrible idea. It is inefficient to slow down to pay the tolls and driving through them fast is dangerous.

Lets stick with Utah's tried and true system. Let a state wide gas tax pay for road improvements. This is efficient and convenient and is a toll on those who drive, you people out there that have a fetish for tolls.
Gas Tax > Toll Roads | 11:06 p.m. May 18, 2008
Raising the gas tax is a better than tolls.

Why? Raising the gas tax to pay for roads has the secondary effect of encouraging people to get fuel efficent vehicles as opposed to gas hogs that hurt our nation's balance of trade and cause more pollution than necessary.
Deseret Dawg | 11:37 p.m. May 18, 2008
One fundamental problem with congestion pricing is that we're being asked to pay more for a service or product that we have already paid for through other forms of taxation.

Tolling can also lead to more progressive forms of government abuse. In New Jersey, if you drive from one toll booth to another in too short of a period of time, you are presumed to have been speeding, and are automatically cited. And in some states, foreign contractors are being allowed to collect the tolls, sucking more of our dollars outside the United States.

Utahns need to fight any effort to toll roads. One of the primary tolling freaks is Sheldon Killpack (R-Syracuse). Remember that name; he's up for election in 2010.
JCH | 8:29 a.m. May 19, 2008
O'Toole is a moron who has no credibility with Portlanders (like me) or anyone who is serious about transportation. He doesn't live in Portland, or any city. He's a one-off nut from -- of course -- the suburbs of Portland. He wants to make Portland easier for him to drive to.

That Evenson would dare re-print O'Toole's appalling assertion that Portlanders are unhappy with the course of their city is a disgusting journalistic error, one that could have been easily corrected by talking to ANY genuine resident of the city.

In any case, the supply/demand market theory of roads is of little use. There market is already distorted because roads come from... the government. They're not apples or widgets, their public goods to begin with, like lighthouses or nuclear weapons. If O'Toole were serious about libertarianizing uour driving habits, he'd make you pave your own road on the way to Costco or K-Mart.

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