I see no FLDS comments on this story yet! Texas CPS is by no means flawless (not even close)--but just think for a minute how history could have been different if Warren's mother had had a "parenting plan" when he was six years old! He may not have ended up the way that he did. This whole ordeal is awful for the children and their mothers--no doubt about it. But what exactly does it take to stop a culture where abusers and control freaks are bred and told that it's God's will? It's time to stop pointing fingers, stop ignoring and start coming up with solutions.

Odd that the state would take such interest in the educational needs of Warren Jeffs son, while my 6th grader did nothing new this year instead waiting for the other kids to catch up thanks to "no child left behind." In the new school year we are sending her to private school and do not for a moment question why so many homeschool their children who test higher than those in public schools.

I also find it odd that "the sky was falling" in regards to "underage pregnancy" yet the finances seem to be the real focus of Tx. It's always just about the money.

I think the state's plans are way too overbearing.

While these service plans are vague and identical, it doesn't take much to figure out what needs to be done. She shouldn't do anything that could be called into question.

Warren Jeffs is a convicted sex offender. The mother should have no contact whatsoever with him.

The mother is not officially married to Warren Jeffs, therefore, she doesn't need to file for divorce. She shouldn't date any male within the FLDS as they are suspect since they abandoned the compound due to fear of criminal prosecution.

She should submit to testing to determine whether or not her son is able to learn and is functioning at his grade level. If he is behind, she should arrange to hire a tutor to bring him up to grade level.

She should obtain her GED if she lacks a HS diploma. She should find an apartment near her son and a job that can support the two of them and open a savings and checking account. She should not return to the ranch, which housed statutory rapists. She should obtain therapy that will help her understand that it is inappropriate for a mother to associate with child sexual abusers.

I hope the courts being non-specific in their requirements is not another attempt to trap the mother so they can take the child permanently. These poor mommies.

Take your own advice, please, Patricia, regarding the need "to stop pointing fingers, stop ignoring and start coming up with solutions." Texas CPS obeying constitutional procedures would be a good place to start, doncha think?

I find it interesting that there's no FLDS comments yet either. I wonder how many more of those kids have birth defects. Poor little guy, I hope he gets the physical therapy and educational help he needs and so do all the other kids there. I hope his mom does everything the court asks and hopefully she'll learn something too.

If you participate in any religion, you are equally as guilty in blindly following as the FLDS. As you point fingers at them, remember three are pointing at you.

Ex-mo, agnostic mother of 3

This goes to show how inbred these FLDS people are. What a shame for these kids. This is a perfectly good reason why FLDS cultist need to be stopped. Warren Jeffs looks like he is very inbred. I won't be cruel and say just why I think this, but it is obvious by looking at him.

The plan is to maybe have this child reunited with his mother by 2009.
This is so insane I cannot believe what this poor mother has to go through.
It is clear this judge and the CPS have abused these children and mothers.
This judge needs to be removed from hearing any more cases and the children sent home to their parents now.

Wow now Texas does not have to prove the son was abused but the Mother has to prove she is employable, educated and mentally sound to get her son back. Do all Texas mothers have to meet this standard or just FLDS mother? Come on Judge Judy what are you thinking? Send the boy home and stop this witch hunt!

Texas has a really tough road ahead of them - in trying to get so many cases seen in a short period of time. Good luck with that. I hope they can put an end to the marrying of under-aged children to adult men. I don't have a problem with poligamy itself as long as the two married are consenting adults.

As far as educational expectations - these should be the same for the FLDS children as they are for any other child in America.

I feel that for the most part, the fathers and mothers of the FLDS children do love their kids but some of their practices are simply not acceptable at this point in time (in America), and we cannot look away any longer.

I used to feel that CPS was really overstepping their bounds when they took the infant and small children. I also felt that the young girls needed protected. I feel so sorry for the victims, both women and children. I assume that we are not getting the full story from CPS, but, I am certain we are not getting the full story from the FLDS either. There is so much condemning evidence against them. CPS cannot even find all the parents. Where are they? Why are they not in court trying to get their children back? Why are they abusing the 'lost boys'? It is obvious that the FLDS consider themselves above the law. The abuse will continue to spread until the FLDS know that the government and the people will not accept this kind of behavior, especially in the name of religion. The FLDS abusers must be stopped. The FLDS have brought this mess upon themselves, and now they will have to get out of it. It is sad that the children have to suffer because of it.

So birth defects are from inbreeding! I bet parents are glad to know why their kids have birth defects.

Some of your comments are really off the wall. A birth defect can happen anywhere, nothing to do with inbreeding or polygamy. The service plans are terrible, the date to reunite is a year from now. The State has power of the mother and her child all this time telling them what needs to be done. At the compound mothers could stay home with their children, now they are looking for what work the mother can do. The service plan nor the CPS are working in the best interest of the children, that is very clear. The best interest would be to give the children back immediately and not wait until they are bonded to another family who will most likely have treated them worse than their own children. Judge Walther is a failure!

Patricia | 10:16 a.m. May 19, 2008
"But what exactly does it take to stop a culture where abusers and control freaks are bred and told that it's God's will?"

Reality check:

That is not why the kids were taken away. They were taken because of sexual and physical abuse that CPS imagined was occurring there.

There is no factual basis to assume they had the "culture" you suggest, and at any rate there is no constitutional basis for legal action against a "culture".

"What it takes" to get people to change their "culture" is extra-legal force, and no one is allowed to go outside the law, not even Texans.

You're going to have to get over your hate, because the law is on the side of the FLDS.

I am from upstate New York and my parents are 2nd cousins! My siblings and I don't have any birth defects!! In fact we are very smart. Only jealous people talk the way you do.

You are all brainwashed by the media. You all draw conclusions as though these people are guilty because of poor reporting. Even to this day there is continual press stating about this Sarah who made a phone call than might have been a hoax. Some don't even say it was a hoax. The same Judge who issued the warrant judges the cases. My niece just had a baby born with defects. It is not from being inbred. The state has not right to do the things it has done. This is for their good? You have no right to judge, as they have not been treated right under our constitutional laws once guaranteed by our country. It is a Hitler, as blind as the Germans were.

It's funny you should mention the alleged inbreeding because neither Warrens parents nor this boy Samuel's parents are related in any way that I can think of. Your comments are typical of the misinformation being spewed here. I wonder if the case could be made that you are perpetrating a hate crime against Sharon or maybe she would like to file a libel suit against you. Can you give me more personal contact information that I can forward to an attorney? I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

The inbreeding comments are quite amusing. Are you aware that all blondes and all red-haired individuals are the by-product of inbreeding? Are you aware that ALL blue or green eyed people are the products of inbreeding? Do you have ANY disease that can be attributed to recessive genes? That too is caused by inbreeding. Will you now sterilize all people living on islands since they will likely commit inbreeding? Will you demand paternal information at sperm donation centers before all marriages because of the risk of inbreeding? Will you open ALL adoption records because of the risk of inbreeding? The list goes on. While you are personally adverse because of current societal norms, even Abraham married his half-sister and Lot, well you know.

How can any judge decide the fate of a child in such a short-time without considering all the evidence.

A lot a changed since the first 14 day hearing. There are a tons of contested facts. I really don't know if there was a "pattern and practice" of underage age girls having children. It would take more than a couple of pregnant teenage girls to prove this.

Don't the children deserve a full, individual hearing? This is not the parents right but the child's right!!!!

My gut instinct is that there are a few hard-line mothers who would marry their daughter at 13 and then there are a few who would never have allowed that to happen. These children deserve a judge that will look at the evidence!

Good thing I read the post above. The dr.'s have no idea why my son has the congenital disorder he has. Clearly his birth defect was, as all are, related to "inbreeding." If that is the mentality of those that believe the FLDS all belong in CPS control, I now believe FLDS should have their children immediately returned since gray matter is not being used to the best of its ability by those in charge of their children.

from Stop the Inbreeding - "Warren Jeffs looks like he is very inbred. I won't be cruel and say just why I think this, but it is obvious by looking at him."

Dear Stop the Inbreeding,

Please send us your photo so that we can properly determine your genetic makeup

by the way, I'm no fan of Warren Jeffs

is NOT to work outside the home? Will the right honorable (and totally wrong) judge Walther put this litte guy up for adoption? So, mommy gets a job at McDonalds and then she can have her son back. That's makes total sense.

Does anyone know when the appeals court is going to issue their opinion. I thought they might be waiting for the "individual" hearings so they could rule that "yes, it should have been done within 14 days, but since it was done at the 60 day hearing, nothing else is required - just don't do it next time".

However, now the children still didn't get a individual hearing to determine if they should stay in custody. I'm guessing that there might be a ruling very soon that will require individual custody determinations.

Does anyone know anything?

I thought this was working women against stay at home mothers. And men like mystery not skin and tight clothes. I was told this by a man. Men are not attracted to makeup. Why are men looking for wives in foreign countries, not bossy American women? Child abuses is only the smoke screen.

Inbreeding in FLDS Short Creek people is well documented. Fumarase deficiancy is a big problem.

Google it

It causes some of the worst birth defects in the world. Many of these babies are called "stillborn", although that may not actually have been.

Whats that tell you..?

Cults are evil. This the USA and we do not need cults like FLDS. They are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Just how does polygamy induce inbreeding? Seems like if you have to go outside the community to snag a few more women, you are less, not more, likely to inbreed.
Ph.D. Anthropologist

To Gal50:

Yesterday your local CPS office received an anonymous call stating that your child is being abused. So, tomorrow they are going to bust down your front door with guns and take your kids away from you. You will have NO contact with them whatsoever!

Want them back? Then you will need to do the following:

You and your son should submit to testing. If he or you are below average we are going to terminate your parental rights.

You will also not be allowed to attend your church or practice your religion. If you do...we will terminate your parental rights.

You should obtain your GED or we will terminate your parental rights.

Of course we'll want to look at your bank accounts and if you don't have a sufficient amount saved then. We will terminate parental rights!

You should never return to your neighborhood or your existing house or you guessed it! WE WILL TERMINATE YOUR PARENTAL RIGHTS and KEEP YOUR KIDS.

Knock Knock: Gal50. Open your door it the CPS coming to take your children. And for good measure they are going to take all the kids on your block because you live there.

Stop the inbreeding | 11:01 a.m. May 19, 2008
"This goes to show how inbred these FLDS people are."
"Warren Jeffs looks like he is very inbred."

All you establish here is that you are the kind of person who will speak out of ignorance and judge people based on how they look.

The only "inbreeding" FLDS has been accused of is cousin marriage, which is legal in about half the states and was legal in Texas until they passed the anti-FLDS laws.

The CPS has not mentioned inbreeding in any of it's accusations.

Don't let your hate do the thinking for you. Have some compassion and enough curiosity to do a google search.

In a post, somebody said we should focus on solutions.The solution is simple. Send the children home.

I love it how when people are upset about Government actions they dont agree with they compare it to Hitler and the Germans.Brainwashed, I suggest that you take some history classes, do some reading, talk to some people who experienced it, and maybe visit Germany. Maybe then you will gain an understanding of the situation Germany was in when Hitler rose to power. My parents were born in Germany so yes I do have accurate knowledge of the subject.

To Gal50:
Are you a parent? If som, have you done each of the things you advocate and filed verification with the state that you are in compliance with the state mandated policy for you to have and care for children?
It is so easy to mandate from the sidelines that others do things we would not for a moment consider we do ourselves.

These children deserve better | 11:49 a.m. May 19, 2008
"My gut instinct is that there are a few hard-line mothers who would marry their daughter at 13 and then there are a few who would never have allowed that to happen."

MANY non-FLDS girls in Texas marry at 13. It is perfectly LEGAL as long as you have a court order. However no such court order has ever been issued for the FLDS. FLDS are not equal under the law in Texas.

One way you can tell a girl is NOT FLDS is that she is 13 and married.

Here is the part that you keep missing: If the court was so terribly interested in "evidence" regarding abuse, why are they looking at FINANCIAL records?

So anyone having a child is subject to a thorough test right? I mean we don't have a welfare problem because all mothers are employable right? There's no issue with underage girls getting pregnant anywhere in the country right?

If birth defects are all completely the result of inbreeding, well mexico, india, africa that must be all they do then (oh wait, even 1st world countries still have birth defects).

These people who make such asinine commits must be the same people who think our constitution hasn't been stepped on, shredded, and completely ignored by our suppose government for the people by the people...wake up, quit be sheeple!

frog meet boiling water...

I wholeheartedly agree with you that consitutional procedures have to be followed by CPS, and I agree that they have made numerous mistakes in this case--it is certainly a first for everyone involved. I don't believe the garbage that the CPS is in any way equal to the Nazis, nor do I believe the ridiculous comment that all birth defects are due to inbreeding--everyone needs to stop being so extreme and absolute--that's a huge part of the problem. But I'm not so sure that just returning the kids to this environment with no further questions asked is such a great idea either. Someone needs to come up with a plan for these kids that puts their best interests first, while not trampling on their parents' rights. But their parents should NOT have the right to push them into marriage and babies with someone they did not choose at the ripe old age of 16, and then call it religion.

Please explain to me judges have approved GAYS to marry and it's not legal for people to practice plural marriage? It's very clear to see that the rule of law is not being practiced in the U.S. I believe that the law should state; "Marriage is a legal bond between one man and one woman period!"

These women aren't legally married. Technically they are single. They aren't to live with FLDS men if they want their kids back. What are they supposed to do? Sit at home and live off welfare? The judge is asking them to show some responsibility. Stop leeching off society, get a job and take care of your kid.

Just a note to all the readers, are we living in a foreign country or what? How in American can an agency without any formal charges or evidence of abuse or neglect steal away over 400 children.
Among them adults with no formal charges.

It really is a sad state of affairs when one state
Calif. changes the will of the people and another
state Texas completely over rides the constitution.

Time for a real change people who fall for the media
lies and assume that it is reality should read back
to WW2 and how the goverments then and now use the media.

I guess if the goverment says that the enemy to our
country is the Bible all readers will be the enemy.

Many of you would say that's not possible. Oh yes it is. Just wait. 20 to 30 years from now some books will be outlawed, in this case the Book of Mormon is now suspect.

Hey all of you who feel that the CPS are correct please follow the police to the kool aid dispenser.

As a geneticist and research specialist in full term birth defects, I just realized a key my colleagues and I have neglected in our years of research and billions of dollars spent in searching for cures, therapeutic and rehabilitative treatments, diagnostic and preventative measures for hundreds of documented birth defects. How simple. Whoever the geniuses are on this board: we might as well quit all the research into these catastrophic childhood defects now that you Einsteins provided the clue: inbreeding.

What a shame people are permitted to make a mockery out of the lifelong efforts of so many dedicated medical professionals laboring tirelessly to eliminating childhood illnesses and birth defects by claiming this child's lost limb was due to inbreeding (as Anon E Mouse and Stop the Inbreeding posters claimed above) How preposterous!

If I had the time, and you had the brains, I could provide you with an exhaustive list of some of the more rare idiopathic defects and let you interview the unfortunate parents and pronounce your findings (based on research I'm sure) to them that their child suffers from this incurable malady because of the parent's inbreeding. Take a break from your bigotry!

WOW! This is probably the best thing that could have ever happened for these poor kids. Had they continued to be raised in this ungodly society of the FLDS, they no doubt would turn out to be socially retarded. There are no true benefits to living they way they have been. God is freedom and and there certainly was no freedom there. Now, about the inbreeding. No doubt there are many ways to be born with a defect/handicap. However, the chances are greatly increased when u keep it in the family. Now for the agnostic w unsermountable faith; being agnostic is one of two things. Either you truly have no understanding god and religion or that's your excuse to not claim culpability for your actions. No culpability equals no threat to feeling guilty. These kids no to be placed in a situation which will provide the means to make them productive members of society. Not outcasts with no recourse to being a member of a dying and brainwashed society.

Sharon, men look for wives in foreign countries because they want submissive women. Women who will do what their told, like many of the FLDS women.

Interesting that some of the boys at the Boy's ranch apparently have had their copies of the Book of Mormon removed. Substitute "Koran" for "Book of Mormon" and see what kind of an outcry would be raised.

For those baptists that are concerned that the Book of Mormon might be used to promote the FLDS lifestyle, get reading. I would suggest that you start in Mosiah chapter 11, reading about King Noah.

(I know its a nasty comment, but I can't resist)

This entire case is going to end up in a Supreme Court and then TX is going to loose big time. Now they will have already done immeasurable damage to these kids. The judges are simply refusing to look at the fact that most of this kids were taken illegally. You can only remove children from the home as a last resort in TX, and the consequences are supposed to be dire. By just continuing on like the first hearing was legitimate they are setting themselves and the state of TX for massive lawsuits.

The FLDS should not marry their children off at 16, however that issue could have been handled without a mass removal of children. They should be allowed to live in a communal lifestyle if they wish. It seems that the reunification plan is to keep them from doing just that. It seems like the state of TX has decided to divide and conquer FLDS, and that is against the first amendment.

The state of TX is going to have big problems from this one.

I'm amused by the posters that want the kids returned to their parents - since in many cases the parents aren't even known. And "what if mom's choice" is to be a stay-at-home mom is fine, except she needs to provide for her child - since the father is either unknown or in jail. How's she going to support her child(ren) if she has no job?

Sorry FLDS moms - the pattern of full seclusion of your children from modern-day society is over. You will have to let your children see the real world and make their own decisions as they grow up. Great for the kids, actually good for you, terrible for the men since their perpetual slave ring is broken up. (only took 100 yrs.....)

I've gotten so used to seeing these darling children and their sweet mothers now that when this is over I will kind of miss them. I sure hope that somehow this works out good for them. Have you noticed how slim and pretty they are?

How rude and insensitive of the judge to ask the FLDS mothers to...gasp...get a job! Doesn't she realize these women have lived off welfare their whole lives and even though they teach their children to "work hard" they themselves have never worked a day in their life (sorry, making bread and folding sheets or having one of your 6 kids do it doesn't count as work). The audacity of the judge to have the FLDS do what CPS asks of every other mother in a similar situation: get out of your abusive relationship, prove that you won't go back, get a job and become responsible. What a horrible judge.

Seriously though, these mothers should just open a sewing shop or two. I'm sure they can whip out clothes as fast as the sweat shops in Asia.

to Bruce...IF THE SHOE FITS WEAR IT!! AND PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!

Don't let your hate do the thinking for you. Have some compassion and enough curiosity to do a google search.One way you can tell a girl is NOT FLDS is that she is 13 and married.

COMPASSION?? Sounds like you give yourself the right to condemn and make judgments of ALL woman on the outside of your cult. You need to look home and quit blaming others and quit inbreeding.