Great Editorial!

Whats the point?

If you can't find anything to write about, just pull out an old college essay.

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Cannon as to the source of increasing social ills. I believe it is our failure as individuals to wholly accept responsibility for our lives that is causing and speeding the seeming downward spiral. Whatever our values, when we turn over responsibility for our and our family's welfare to others, we inevitably suffer. We are the best determiners of what will help us flourish, we are the only ones who adequately know our situation and resources to create the life we'd like to live. When we put our energies into complaining and point-fingers, waiting for "them" to get their act together and fix things, we waste our energy and lose time in unsatisfactory lives when we could be enjoying the challenge of the journey. Imho, the satisfaction of truly taking charge of our circumstances and putting in the work to make good things happen is a blessing worth every effort.

Our faith in whatever god, gods or no god we choose to believe in has less relevance than choosing to believe in ourselves. Having courage to refine a vision for ourselves and our families then going about accomplishing it will bring astonishing results and satisfaction.

This sounds like something Lavar Christensen and other Utah "conservatives" would write: lots of quotes and touchy-feely sentimentalism intended to convey the spirit of conservatism, but no definite course of action.

I think your comments illustrate Mr. Cannons point. It is the belief in ourselves as defined by ourselves that allows for the very corrupt situation we find ourselves in.

It is our inability to accept clearly defined boundaries (higher laws) and lack of a belief in a Higher Authority (Deity) that guarantees us that your opinion and/or mine will become the law. It assures us that there will never be consensus among us much less agreement on who ultimately has the authority to exercise judgement.

The founders of this nation believed in those principles. In the words of Benjamin Franklin (paraphrased), "you will either be governed by the laws of God or the laws of men." Every ill can be traced back the violation of moral law which really has it roots in spirituality.

The founders also understood that true freedom (and happiness) can only come from obedience to moral law. It is ironic that the misuse of ones agency to violate moral law assures eventual enslavement to ones passions, urges, etc..

The simple truth is that this Higher Power (Deity) exists. Because you have not yet discovered Him does not negate this truth.

Mr Cannon got this one right.

Joe,

You nailed it! Thank you!!! (We've obviously read some of the same books.)

You have succinctly explained why we have no consensus in our government and its government-run schools today. You have laid a philosophical foundation for precisely why parents must know what they're getting in our public schools and why they must have a choice of what world view is taught in their children's classroom.

Much enlightenment is needed here for elected leaders, parents, and teachers. Thanks again for beginning the discussion.

Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research

Since our judges have abandoned Natural Law, all that remains is for society and its schools to rely on the devices of what one person believes over what another believes. That is a prescription for tyranny.

And I respectfully disagree with you. I have discovered a higher power after discovering the god of the religion I was raised in and faithfully, cheerfully observed for more than 40 years, was a construct of man. My moral compass is in fine repair and were you to ask my friends, family and associates you would be pleased with the example I set in my life and the good works I seek to do. I believe we all have it in us to put our talents and gifts to good benefit for our communities, as well as ourselves.

I have been saddened though by comments from those in my former ward that they wouldn't dare live by personal responsibility for without the restraints of religion they would run around doing all manner of reveling and reviling. However, in my humble opinion, I believe this is because they haven't much practice in truly listening in the quiet moment then acting accordingly. I have confidence they could learn if they began taking personal responsibility for creating a happy, productive life instead of leaving it to the fabled trials and blessings of their god.

I appreciate your thought,"The founders also understood that true freedom (and happiness) can only come from obedience to moral law." I wholeheartedly agree with it. However, I believe all have an inherent moral compass and that keeping faith with values and attitudes that engender neighborliness, concern for the greater good, and seeking the betterment of self and community does not arise from religion. These attributes, imho, arise in good people everywhere who take the time for introspection, desire to be the best they can be, and seek to contribute productively, compassionately to society.

If religious ethos promotes good works, I believe it is due to this natural inclination to good of those who ascribe to one philosophy or another. If it were people becoming good due to religion without doing the personal work I think you would find society to be just as it is. Everyone proclaiming their god or no god, contending with one another, and hoping their "right" becomes right for all. I have found much violation of moral law at the behest of organized religion.

I find it ironic not at all that living in violation of moral principles degrades the human state.

"The struggle between the spiritual and the material still overwhelms us. The real antidote is to choose between belief and unbelief. For, as historian John Lukacs tells us in "At the End of an Age," "The materialist view of the world is both insufficient and misleading. We cannot scientifically — or logically — 'prove' that God exists. But we cannot prove the impossibility of God's existence either. We do not have ideas; we choose them."

I choose to believe permanent, guiding principles of morality exist and they can be lived regardless of religious belief/unbelief. Faith in the human spirit, to me, ignites worthy passions and energizes the desire to love and serve well.

If you believe these principles do not exist without a religious foundation then which foundation would you have the people follow? and why would your choice of religions be morally superior to the choices others would make?

I believe in the goodness of people and am richly rewarded time and time again. I believe in the rightness of living moral lives, but do not accept defining morality as the purview of religion.

I don't think I referred to organized religion in my statements, although I have personally received a witness of the truthfulness of the Church in which you seem to allude to coming to an opposite conclusion. Ironically, my knowledge came from a simple and sincere request notwithstanding I was a less faithful member for most of my young adult life.

Although I have no Divine witness to validate my own conclusions of how the whole program might work, I am certain I could not have come to any sort of reasonable conclusion without first receiving a Divine manifestation to set the ground work.

That knowledge gives me confidence amid a myriad of questions that I don't have answers to.

I believe that the laws that govern the universe are eternal and exist independent of Deity. I believe that because Deity is perfectly obedient to those laws, He qualifies to be the perfect administrator of those laws.

It then seems reasonable that He would want to reveal to His children those eternal truths in an orderly fashion (the Church) rather than they finding them out through trial and error where sometimes the errors cause irreparable damage.

I respect your opinion. Please excuse my faux pas of assuming your quotes and thoughts referencing "God's laws," "Deity," etc. suggested religion. If you refer to Deity as a higher power which can instruct us amidst our everyday humaness to consider a better path, a higher way, and reveal to our minds universal law then I believe we are talking about the same power. You refer to it as Deity. I refer to it as our higher selves which discerns much outside our awareness through inheritance and the processing through all our senses our lives' experiences. Imho, it is the wonderous working of the whole of who we are. For you and for me, it appears instruction comes in the listening moment regardless of our name for it.

I would also agree with your premise of orderly revelation educating us at the appropriate moment. Still, I prefer the errors I make when I hear wrongly than the ones I was taught as doctrine for I know my actions, even when I err in understanding, are filtered through a moral lens grounded in love.

"We do not have ideas, we chose them."
There is much more to this statement than immediately meets the eye. It seems to exclude the creative arts from human experience, if not totally, at least in terms of importance. It also seems to exclude personal responsibility for the selection once it is made. And what of those who prevent the availability of choices, particularly by their use of force or coercion?