Why? Would are the problems? Prince Jon is just tilting at windmills. As long as nonresidents are paying their full cost what's the big concern?

Utah should be proud that so many states recognize its CWP; it is a testament to the quality of instruction that permit holders receive. Permit holders tend by their very nature to be law abiding citizens. I can't think of a single reason that a criminal would want or attempt to get a permit (So they can carry a gun on school grounds to shoot children? So that they can rob a person by suddenly pulling out their legally concealed weapon? So that they can brandish a weapon so that they not only lose their permit but also get to be a guest of the State?)

So, Jon is concerned that we can't watch out of state permit holders as closely as we would like? Please let me know how severe the problem is. How many Utah permit holders have committed a crime involving a firearm in the last 13 years? Is it 1,000? Is it 100?

How many permit holders have committed a crime using a firearm, compared with how many paroled felons have committed crimes. Shoot, how many felons have been caught with illegal firearms?

Jon, and D-news, please support your concern with some data and facts.

Issuing permits to non-Utahans should be banned. If these people cannot or will not get permits from their own states (which they voluntarily live in) - that's their problem. They need to take the issue up with their own legislators. Utah's taxpayers should not be subsidizing the firearms choices of people from out of state.

Anonymous--
There's a worry that they're not paying the full cost.

How about making it so Utah's don't need a permit? We shouldn't have to have one to exercise the second ammendment.

For out of staters, continue to let them get one.

If we are to continue to chip away at gun rights, it will be death by a thousand cuts.

Let's be realistic. First, only a few rich folks would bother coming to Utah to get a Utah Permit. I don't believe that solution would increase tourism one iota so Huntsman's "solution" is an elitist concept at best. At worst, a back door ban.

Second, the editor suggests that Utah permit holders are being unfairly scrutinized because DPS can't check out of state holders as easily as they can check in-state holders. Well guess what, Utah permit holders are being discriminated against every day. As far as I know, they are the only people in the state that have a daily background check for criminal records. This is an obvious and blatant violation of the "equal protection" clause in the Fourteenth Amendment. This is legalized discrimination against a certain class of citizen that ought to be done away with or applied to every citizen in the state.

(cont.)

Third, the editor would have you believe that out of state permit holders are issued permits with no background checks, ever. That is misleading as all permit holders have initial checks by the state and federal governments and fingerprints are put on file.

All these hoops are for people he admits "the vast majority of people who apply for concealed-weapons permits are law-abiding citizens." Note the use of the word "vast"? He could have just said majority, but he felt the need (and rightly so) to include "Vast" in his description. Kinda makes you wonder why the DPS is wasting their money on these checks anyway, doesn't it?

out-of-state bad guys will stop carrying concealed simply because they can't get a Utah permit?

The tourism argument is ridiculous, but why should Utah necessarily cater to out-of-staters? It's great that it does, but if it chooses to stop I don't see it as any big gun-rights statement.

The United States?

We must be “The United States”. Each state needs to support the other. When an individual earns their concealed weapons permit in Utah it applies in Wyoming. If we start limiting where permits can be obtained it follows that where they apply will be limited. We the People have the right to protect ourselves. United we stand.

I agree with the opinion of the desnews. Why should we issue permits to out of state people at all? Do we issue drivers licenses to out of stater's?

And, we should arm every toddler as soon as they can walk and hold a gun. And we should require every single citizen to carry a loaded handgun every day of their lives. After all, it's for our protection. United we stand.

We all have the RIGHT to OWN weapons (that's in the Bill of Rights). But that's NOT what Utah's Concealed Carry Permit is about. The Concealed Carry Permit has NOTHING to do with your right to own the gun. This permit makes it legal for you to conceal your gun and carry it with you when you are out and about. Don't get the purpose for the 2 mixed up.

There are good reasons for requiring the permit (I won't go into them here) and it doesn't take away your 2nd ammendment rights.

The easy solution would be to up the cost for out of staters who wish to get a Utah permit. Make the amount charged enough to hire extra workers. If they are out of state, they should also provide their own background check/transcript from their own state. Everybody wins.

The right to carry concealed weapons isn't protected by the 2nd amendment which reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Our right to keep arms is a right that is intrinsic and the right to bear arms or make war is also protected by the Constitution but the right to carry concealed weapons on our person at all times isn't protected.

The text of the 2nd amendment could be properly read as "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep [store] and bear [use] Arms in war against X, shall not be infringed."

It's basically saying the right to use [bear] Arms for military purposes and the right to keep those Arms [store] for the same purpose can't be infringed because a well regulated militia is necessary for a free state.

In Switzerland this right is protected and everyone owns fully automatic weapons but they are prohibited from using them except in time of war. Switzerland also has carry laws, registration, and regulations for civilian use.

The governor should be forthright. If the state has a legitimate reason for requiring supervision of training courses, then tourism shouldn't be mentioned. Otherwise, numerous other programs could be curtained on the protectionist idea that it will force people to enter the state. If too many barriers pop up, people will forgo the hassles and operate in the gray and black markets instead. It would be better for the state to be aware of concealed carriers than to force them underground where it has no idea who they are.

I guess I'm not welcome on the DesNews site because I don't live in Utah.

After all, if the publishers have a problem with out of state people (like me) who spend nearly $200 to get a Utah CCW, then they must REALLY be angry at those of us who come to this site without paying a penny!

Lame,

Utah residents will not be forced underground since they can legally purchase guns and obtain concealed carry permits. Those who live in another state can obtain a permit from their state or travel to Utah to obtain one here.

Utah residents will have no need to go through the black market or operate in the gray. Those who do violate the law and if they would rather avoid the hassle associated with obtaining a concealed permit by breaking the law they shouldn't have a concealed weapons permit in the first place.

To claim that if "too many barriers pop up, people will forgo the hassles to operate in the gray and black markets instead" is to say if "too many barriers pop up, people will forgo the hassles and break the law."

I'm glad to know that if you have a little hassle that you would PREFER TO BE CRIMINAL THAN TO OBEY THE LAW. You are the kind of scum we don't want to have CCW permits. Any hassle we put you through is worth it since you just made it clear you have no respect for the rule of law and would break it for personal inconvenience.

I'm an out of state reader,

Visiting this site and reading the Deseret News online does not cost the Deseret News anymore than it already pays to maintain this website. Advertisers don't care if you are from Utah or from out of state nor does the Deseret News.

On the other hand obtaining concealed weapons permit from Utah even when it costs $200 (hardly any of which makes its way to Utah) from outside of the state does cost Utah taxpayers money and you don't pay into our system.

We pay the personnel to process the applications, to maintain the software, hardware and the physical locations for those who process the applications and these same personnel and resources could be better used to serve Utah taxpayers. We also pay for the tracking and certifications of those who provide these services to out-of-state residents.

If there's a report of a criminal enterprise mass producing applications for non-residents we have to send undercover officers at Utah's taxpayers expense to investigate. This is easy in Utah but it's not as easy when it involves out of state residents. Are you going to pay for their FLIGHT TO YOUR STATE?