The DN reported yesterday that home prices were up 3% along the Wasatch Front... Which is it? Up or Down?

MLS listings at this hour are OVER 24,000 listings, which I believe is AN ALL-TIME RECORD!!

With inventory continuing to surge, this game has several innings to play.

The paper is just not going to print the crazy stories I have been hearing from people. There are so many "real estate investors" that are in way over their heads.

Many are hanging on by their fingernails. There are so many empty lots that are NOT going to sell anywhere close to what they are asking. Long way to go before this bottoms. Thing is, there's no hurry. When it does "bottom" it will bounce around there for several years. The easy money that fueled the last bubble is OVER.

But my realtor told me they aren't making any more land and all these people and jobs were coming to Utah! How can this be???

Ok, here we have an opportunity to pit both papers against each other. And my friends in this case you need to pop open the Tribune and read their article on the same housing numbers. You get a much better understanding of the situation by a reporter who obviously can sift thru the numbers to find the true story.

Sorry Jason Lee you were clearly beaten on the playing field today.

There is a critical number he missed altogether. That is $300,000 a threshold in the housing prices that marks affordability. 70% of all sales are at or under that threshold and prices are not declining at all in that level. Virtually all of the price declines and those big percentage drops in both value sand sales come from homes that are 400,000 and above and that holds true in all 5 counties along the Wasatch front.

Read the Trib article, this one was poorly investigated and poorly written. Great job Dnews!

if you can't discern if the housing market is generally up or generally down, you are in trouble.

The newspapers are responsible for generating readers and therefore are incented to write anything that will get people's attention.

Don't make it sound like such a "dooms-Day". Last year we had over 90,000 homes on the MLS. 24,000 is right where it should be. Salt Lake County has 8,723. That is down from just a few months ago when it was over 11,000 but it is right-on with the averages from the past five years of about 8,500. The average price of homes actually increased after the drop. Everyone knows that most homes list in the second quarter of each year and sell for their highest prices in the third quarter of each year. With this, it makes sense that we will see prices drop in the next quarter. That is right in-line with the averages. The best time to buy in any year is the 4th and 1st quarter of any given year. That's when prices are the lowest. Therefore, it becomes easy to predict that prices will start to recover in about March/April of next year based on history.

All of the other markets that crashed continued along for about a year or two with low sales without prices crashing, but then the prices fell 20% to 30% in about six months to a year. Utah is no different, and we will be entering foreclosure city in the next year sometime.

Real estate prices are "sticky" going down, but when prices are unsustainable, they will eventually fall, and fall hard. This will also cause all the realtors, brokers, consruction workers, and others depending on a rising and robust real estate market to lose their jobs, which will hurt the market even more. Tough times ahead.

please look for the lee gardner salt lake county assessor article yesterday in this very same news paper ...

he thinks the housing market is up and therefore your property taxes are still staying UP it is his opinion that nothing has gone down

therefore, again .. it is the opinion of the county assessor that assesses your property with taxes

this state needs the prop13 of calif .. acquisition based property taxing .. to remove these whims of ideas for your property taxing from year to year in this state ...

who's right lee gardners opinion or the two papers facts about the real numbers related to property values really going down ... but apparently your taxes arent based on factual numbers but rather county assessors opinions on how the market place is doing

again .. acquisition based property taxing is the only way to go these days in this state

the next property taxing committee mtg will be august 20th on capital hill .. i suggest this state start getting interested in this issue .. several on the committee are directors of groups to see fair market value remains - therefore your property tax is opinion

A bubble is hardly starting to "burst" at one or two percent. I am ready to face reality but it seems to me that if a bubble was bursting we would see something more in the range of ten percent. Just a suggestion on the caption of the article.

What an irresponsible headline!!! How many home owners will be hurt by such nonsense? Nothing in your article suggested a crash is imminent!

What political party has been in office these last 8 years? What party has typically run Utahs business forever? Who are you going to vote for this next 2 elections? Do you want to be labeled as sheep forever? Do you want to be the laughing stock of the nation forever? Are you going to vote for the same party that has dominated Utah forever again? Lastly, how do you like our economy at the present?

You just got love em .... It was all of that darn "reckless lending" that got us into this mess. Oh I see. I'm glad the president of the Salt Lake Board of Realtors cleared that up.

So, it has nothing to do with the reckless borrowing, reckless appraising, reckless development, and reckless pimping of the sale that realtors might do if they are trying to add an extra digit or two onto their monthly income.

There ain't no bubble bursting.
Economic times have been better than ever.
Stop your liberal whining and get back to work!
All is fine and dandy in Pleasantville.

There was another article about forclosed homes in Utah this week. Utah is number 10 in forclosures in the U.S. of A. The ARM resest interest rates are starting to take hold.

Now the downtown SLC is soon, 2010 - 2011 to have high rise condos jumping out into the sky. Rick Howa is pushing condos at 4th and 5th North and 3rd and 2nd West. Hurray! plenty of places to live.

When I walk the downtown streets I see most teenages wearing T shirs and Jeans. They will not have the monies to buy even those $300,000 craker box homes with one bath. Ug Ug Ug .

Salt Lake Citizens are in a dream world fueled buy the moneys they took out of their home equity last year. So. Be. It.

Prop 13 is the worst thing to hit California since Jerry Brown.

It has made it so old people can't move and young people can't afford the taxes.

The principle behind it was right but the way they did was wrong. They are just now starting to really feel the effects of it. The worst is yet to come...

Yes, I'm sure it was a Republican conspiracy that led to the current housing troubles. In fact, George W. actually called me two years ago and told me to start using other peoples' credit scores to build spec homes....Gov Huntsman did the "drive-by" appraisals. We thought it was a great idea...home prices always go up! Supply and demand economics don't apply to the housing market.

Dude...take off your tinfoil head-gear and get with the program.

Yes, the affordability problem has stopped the 300k + homes in their tracks, while homes in the low-mid 200's are still doing OK.

For now.

But what happens when those 300k+ homes start getting priced in the mid-200's? The cookie-cutter 3/2/2's in the 200's are going to be up against custom 4Bedroom homes with bigger lawns for the same price, and guess which ones are going to get the sale?

All that means is everything under 300k is going to have to fall eventually too, because the nicer inventory is going to migrate to that price point and drive the average crap down.

and anonymous .. how is that any different then here in utah where old people are taxed out of their house and young people declare bankrupcy cause they cant afford the house and the higher taxes each year ??

obviously you werent in calif at the time of prop13 like i was and got to stay in my house cause the $2,800 tax bill went back to $550 for the 1% of the $55,000 i paid for my house ...

as for not working .. again anonymous you are out of touch ... the prop13 property taxed based system collects 30% more money then the 'old' system .. the 30 billion on education in the state of calif is met easily ... the school boards are spending wrong ...

a million dollar house near me in mapleton is only assessed at $500,000 ... why ?? under the prop13 it would be a million house and pay $10,000 in taxes ... currently they dont even pay $3,000 in taxes ...

old people dont move cause they can afford where they live (until they get taxed out of their home)

sorry anonymous .. your facts are clueless

Misleading numbers, one sided responses and "Expert" pulp bites. I give this article a -D. Not even worthy of a high school paper.

Really? Inventory was at 90,000? AT once? I think you are skewing things a little. The bigger the boom, the bigger the correction (unless everyone in Utah got a 60% raise or won the lottery). It's not that hard to figure out. The SL county housing price rose 60% in 5 years in many zip codes. IT will fall back down to where it was, plus a few percent for every year.

Maybe the housing market will go low enough for my 2 boys to be able to afford a home instead of renting. I can not have the only kids in their twenty's that are scared of homes costing 275-300 thousand dollars.

"Last year's reckless lending artificially inflated sales," said Jillinda Bowers, president of the Salt Lake Board of Realtors, in a prepared statement. "Finally, we have gotten rid of the rampant speculation and loose lending standards. This year's sales are down compared to last year, but we are cautiously optimistic going forward that home sales will continue to gain momentum as they have since the end of January."

Lenders make loans for purchases based on purchase price. If the realtors do not want to take some responsibility for trying to inflate their incomes, we should all stop using realtors. Besides, they are one player in a purchase transaction you do not need but they make the most commision out of everyone who makes money on the transaction. Stop using them and save yourself 6%!!

proposition 13 was brilliant. How many old people who have their homes paid for would be forced to sell them because they can't afford the property taxes?
If someone buys a new property, they pay the property value at the time of the sale. If the home stays in the family, the low property taxes stay locked in.
How many Californian's can afford a home in CA. Not many. Thank goodness for Prop 13 that allows at least one child in the family to get into a home without exceedingly high property taxes. It is high time that Utah look at Proposition 13. It would really be good for the State of Utah and its people.
Government for the people, by the people.

Utah foreclosures are up 140+% (I have a friend who sells homes for a living), but if you can afford the payments on your house then the bubble won't get you wet as it goes POP. If you're a sales person who keeps blinders on then you are just fooling yourself. We are on the ride at this very moment. Just hang on, this too shall pass. Remember, there will be another sales ploy for the next generation of home buyers to be taken advantage with in the near future. We'll be in the money again. Bankers, realtors and title companies unite, there are thousands of buyers in the pipeline.

I think your mad and need to blame somebody. The REAL blame is on the appraisers and the mortgage companies as well as public greed. The Realtor is not priviledged to know your personal financial situation and if the Mortgage company says you qualify for $500,000 and that's what you want then that's what the Realtor finds for you. The appraiser is hired by the mortgage company and if that appraiser wants to be hired again then her WILL appraise that $300,000 home for $500,000. Several appraisers lost their license because of this.

Prior to the inflation years of the 1970s people generally bought homes as a place to live. When they did sell, they were happy if they were able to get back their original purchase price plus the cost of improvements that they had put into it. Most folks just hoped that one day they would pay off the mortgage. Now after owning a home for say forty years their taxes are far higher than the original mortgage.

Today it is different the "house" is not purchased as only a home and a place to live, but as a speculative investment. Most of today's home owners cannot comprehend not making a profit by selling their "house." Speculation has now become the driving force for the purchase of a "house" and the purchase of a home has become secondary(no matter how the realtors prefer to phrase it) This paradigm has caused the problem we now find ourselves in and is not likely to change anytime soon.

i have been trying to get in a home for the last several years.....and several different realtors wanted to put me in a home that would stretch my means to make a monthly payment....and their 'buddy who is a loan officer' would easily help me qualify...homes along the wasatch are way overpriced and i guess i will continue to wait a little longer....memo to d-news, dropping prices is not a bad thing....it helps first time buyers and other get into homes that are reasonably priced!

What bubble is the headline referring to? The slowdown in home sales that we've had for the better part of a year or some upswing that I didn't know what going on?

Poor headline; poor article.

Why can't local governments control the rate of development. The supply of homes in south Salt Lake, Lehi, Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs is so high that prices wont recover for at least 5 years. Why can't they limit how many permits are given to developers? (this is not a rhetorical ?, I really want to know) Local governments should limit the supply so we don't end up with these excesses.

Is a major problem in America
Craps always flow down hill
Look at the price of Materials going up
How can the price of homes come down
The problem in the works now is the lending
They started this problem
You are going to pay for it
Plenty

Executive Branch, Judicial Branch and, here is what you missed in Civic's class...

Legislative Branch. That's right. And the answer to your question, moron, is Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and all those idiots who propose tax, tax and more tax. They also propose to have two groups in society: The elite, which you obviously are not, and the lower middle class. That is where we are heading because your political party IN POWER to make laws and legislate, are the democrats. Gas prices up nearly 300% since Nancy and Harry took over. Food prices up double in most produce. Unemployment up nearly double since Harry and Nancy. Go back and read your 10th grade civics book and then offer another post. Please spare us your ignorant rhetoric. If you are better off, Questions, then you were two years ago, then go ahead, keep your beloved Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in office and power for another 2, 4-6-8 years by voting their party.

Utah?? Is: The "best run state in the Nation". Sheep? If that is what it is, I'll take it. But it's not....

Reagan/conservative economics is your answer. Read about it. Then post again.

"Questions" -- California is dominated by Democrats. Housing prices in California are down more than 20% year over year.

Obviously, larger forces are involved here than whether the local second-tier clueless politicos have an (R) or a (D) after their names.

I was there during the prop 13 era. It killed the local schools. That was the start of the downfall of education in California.

It made it so we had to cater to the lowest achieving students and everything else was cut.

Now California has some horrible test scores and a teachers union that tries to fight for their teachers but only makes things worse.

Randy, you are out of touch. You obviously were one of the old timers that loved Prop 13. It worked for you. I understand that. It was a short term fix that didn't worry about the future. Now they're stuck.

That is why I said it was right in principle but needs to be dealt with differently here in Utah.

You sound like this teacher I know that was complaining about her property taxes going up $500 a year. I guess she didn't listen when they announced her paycheck was finally going to increase $1500 a year because the school district finally had some money to give back to the teachers.

Anyone with a million dollar home should be just fine with paying to educate the children of Utah.

Some people are just clueless.

Where are you getting your figures? Inventory was NEVER 90,000. I look at it at least every two days, but usually EVERY day. Inventory has been building more and more with slight pullbacks now and then.

Three years ago the MLS inventory was around 9 to 10,000. My zipcode was around 90 units. Now we are around 24,000, which has been building steadily. My zipcode is now over 300 SFH.

I got an "A" in college statistics. What did you get?

Unfortunately housing (and car) costs are not included when inflation is calculated. They are our two biggest purchases. Those costs have skyrocketed. To give an accurate picture of increased costs, they should be included. They are not, because workers would then demand pay raises to keep up. As it is, the average worker keeps falling further behind. He is told that inflation is low, and that he doesn't deserve more than the (image of a) small cost of living raise. And thus the wage gap widens.

These current economy and world problems didn't just happen in the last 1 and1/2 years(not 2 years red ones). This run up of the national debt was created by 1 party and one party only, same for this Iraq occupation, same for this oil mess, same for our relationships with other western countries, and same for this housing mess that was created under the watch of Bush-Wacked and Darth Vader. Give us a break you pro big business conservatives, this current mess lays right in your laps, as it should be. Just what do you think will be the legacy of this crooked, thieving administration?

I got "A's" in all my classes. I am an aircraft test equipment engineer. I hold FAA licenses, work on missiles, and I'm a licensed Realtor. The information I provided was for the entire state of Utah. It came from the WRFMLS and I did mention that it was for over a year ago. 91,300 properties in all of Utah in the 2nd quarter of the year. The entire state. Salt Lake has usually been around 8,500. A few months ago Salt Lake county alone was pushing 14,000. You staticians have to have a base to work from and if your base is negative then you will derive your statistics towards the negative. Perhaps you should go back to school.

You are still comparing apples to oranges. I am watching the stats provided on utahrealestate.com
I don't know how much of the state they cover but it appears to be the whole state. In any case, I have used a consistent measure, and once again, inventory has neen steadily increasing.

My dad was the head of maintenance quality control for a major airline. I think it's the realtors license that is skewing your objectivity.

In order for people to own homes, prices must drop. The housing market was out of control and is still too high. Energy is up, food is up, fuel is up, but salaries are down as is employment. As the housing market becomes affordable to consumers, our economy will settle. We need a slow and steady drop in the price of real estate.

we will be waiting for 10+ years for any sign of a turnaround. Prices are likely to still drop 20% in SLC and more in Utah county. Recent legislation is only an attempt at creating a "false bottom". If you get suckered into thinking it is a stop gap measure you need to guess again. This will only cause longer delays before recovery. The bottom line is that wages drive housing and right now there is too great a disparity. To realtor out there professing to have any clue as to what is happening here...be objective, take off the rose colored glasses...ask your last client that you put into a home how much he makes, look at his debt/income level, consider inflation on critical goods (oil and food), you will then soon see that 3 to 4 times income is a stretch.

Utah, home of the 20 thousand dollar millionaire! 5 years ago when all the investment clubs came rolling into the wasatch front buying property and paying a premium inflating the realestate market creating per say a false market and then skipping town with a nice profit in hand and leaving the locals holding the bag thinking they can make a profit flipping there house for the third time when the average annual income is 30% lower the median price of a home. Perfect timing for all the relaxed lending policies. If you don't understand this check out what happened in Phoenix/Scottsdale, Az or Las Vegas/Henderson, Nv. The question? is our economy really that good I guess it depends on who you listen to. How many people can really afford a 300K house. The bubble lets see how big it really gets.

Where were all you experts telling us "I told you so" before the market crashed? Or to buy before the market was hot? You are haters and you love to tear people down. Get a life, the market will rebound in the next year or two and you naysayers and the rest of the media will have something else to talk about. Notice that the local news channels hardly mention the war in Iraq anymore? This too will pass and so will your lame comments!

Attractive mortgage rates, loose lending standards combined with greed caused the housing meltdown didn't it? Everyone is guilty from Buyer, Seller, Appraiser, Realtor, Title Agency, and Lender. But know body wants to admit they are at fault.