Reader comments: Huntsman, legislators work out budget deal
34 comments | Read story
ER | 3:02 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
I am pround to call Utah my home. We are not always the most frugal, but we make efforts such as this to keep borrowing down without cuting a very important policy change. Any credit for self-employed people is great. I was SE for several years and know how difficult and sometime unfair it is to be your own boss. I hated paying unemployment tax every paycheck knowing that I was not eligable to get it back. A strong base of self employed people is very good for the UTah. We are known for inovation and cutting edge inventions. Let's help people who are willing to be out on the edge.
Bob M. | 5:51 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. Governor Huntsman, you are going to need to call the legislature back into session. The "cuts" are not going to be enough. Try cutting the budget by 30(thirty) percent instead of 3(three) percent. Yes, I know its a shock to the system, but those economic problems on Wall Street are going to have a strong effect on the State, you, the legislature, and the people of the State of Utah. This is not your average everday "recession". And, yes, you are going to have to put public education on the chopping block. Sorry, UEA. Good luck! I mean that sincerely. You and the legislature have got your work cut out for you. P.S. Don't borrow.
arc | 6:52 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Bob M.
Wall Street?
No, the US Gov. had the banks, by law, issue sub-prime loans. We have about $2 trillion of $10 Trillion of them, based on the last numbers I can fine.
The banks have already been very slow to provide credit to construction projects. Many problems have been solved in the last week. Solve a few more, and we will be fine. The demand is there, if the money will follow, the state will be fine.
Wall Street?
No, the US Gov. had the banks, by law, issue sub-prime loans. We have about $2 trillion of $10 Trillion of them, based on the last numbers I can fine.
The banks have already been very slow to provide credit to construction projects. Many problems have been solved in the last week. Solve a few more, and we will be fine. The demand is there, if the money will follow, the state will be fine.
Comments continue below
arc | 6:57 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
How about giving Rep. Bigelow some credit.
cb | 7:44 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
By far the biggest part of the budget is education. When revenues decrease even more this year they will have to cut education funding. It was irresponcible to give so much money to education over the last few years.
Petey | 7:52 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Simple solution, cut all health benefits for state employees. Get rid of the bogus sick days they accrue. Get rid of their internet access and make them accountable for their time. Simple solution.
Protecting the Classroom | 7:58 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Sisnce when has the state of Utah ever made education a priority.
Those darn unions stealing money from the state to give kids an education.
Let's get rid of the union, and start cutting education dollars fast. Who needs an educated workforce anyway?
Those darn unions stealing money from the state to give kids an education.
Let's get rid of the union, and start cutting education dollars fast. Who needs an educated workforce anyway?
Valentine playing partisan polit | 8:07 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
I have to laugh at how Valentine prided himself and the Republican legislature for not borrowing money like the federal government has done. Of course, Utah doesn't borrow money, because it is required by the state constitution to balance the budget. Credit should be given to those who wrote the state constitution, not the current Republican legislature.
Anonymous | 8:20 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
They will be back with more cuts. Revenues will be flat for three years or more. It's going to get ugly.
Thanks Gov | 8:20 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
From a self employed individual who struggles with paying for self employed health insurance, thank you, Gov Huntsman, for preserving this much needed tax credit.
Project Cuts | 8:32 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
One project that needs to be cut for sure is the Lake Powell to St George pipeline. With the housing market in shambles down here we don't need this project now. Just restrict the building permits in the future and continue to work on finding alternative water sources and this area will be fine. It's probaly to late to axe the airport project, but if not wack it too. This housing explosion in all of the desert southwest needs to come to a screaching halt. I mean Utah, Nevada, and Arizona.
Exempting public... | 9:10 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
...education was silly.
Public education accounts for over 50% of the state's budget (That's over $5.5 BILLION just for education)...yet they're the only ones not giving up money?
That's not going to work. You can't cut dozens of other jobs, including public safety, and keep shoveling money into teacher raises.
The legislature needs to quit taking "symbolic" hits and take real ones too. $120 perdiem? WHY? Start eating at Subway instead of Flemmings and we can cut it to $20.
Public education accounts for over 50% of the state's budget (That's over $5.5 BILLION just for education)...yet they're the only ones not giving up money?
That's not going to work. You can't cut dozens of other jobs, including public safety, and keep shoveling money into teacher raises.
The legislature needs to quit taking "symbolic" hits and take real ones too. $120 perdiem? WHY? Start eating at Subway instead of Flemmings and we can cut it to $20.
RE: Valentine playing | 9:14 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
The legislature could have easily borrowed money and been within the state constitution -- or they could have change the language in the con. Instead, they did a great job with a tough situation. Great job Speaker Curtis, Pres. Valentine, Gov. Huntsman and the other leaders of this state. Well done.
Utah County Resident | 9:34 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Re: Project Cuts 8:32 a.m. I wholeheartedly agree with your observations.
On top of that, I observe that these tax revenue projections used to formulate budgets is just a hoax. There is no money until it is in the bank. Come on! And to call less taxes coming in as shortfall is just convoluted thinking. All of this government speak which is political trickle down from Washington D.C. is so lame. And the arrogance of education interests to take what they call a "pass" on any possible adjustments in their alloted part of the budget is just part of the problem. There is no end to what government could devise to spend citizen taxes/fees, whatever the total dollar amount available.
This is just another example for the need to implement my proposal for term limits/5% maximum tax for state/local government revenues. Property tax is anti-American.
On top of that, I observe that these tax revenue projections used to formulate budgets is just a hoax. There is no money until it is in the bank. Come on! And to call less taxes coming in as shortfall is just convoluted thinking. All of this government speak which is political trickle down from Washington D.C. is so lame. And the arrogance of education interests to take what they call a "pass" on any possible adjustments in their alloted part of the budget is just part of the problem. There is no end to what government could devise to spend citizen taxes/fees, whatever the total dollar amount available.
This is just another example for the need to implement my proposal for term limits/5% maximum tax for state/local government revenues. Property tax is anti-American.
No Fat | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Utah's public edcation system is already the leanest in the country. We spend less per pupil than anywhere else in the USA including the commonwealth of Puerto Rico.
re:No Fat | 10:27 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
I agree, but it is nice to see all of these comments about how little people regard education in Utah vs. other States.
And when the economy recovers, are companies bring back jobs to the different states, are they going to choose the state with them most educated population, and bring the tax revenues with them, or come to Utah for the skiing?
And when the economy recovers, are companies bring back jobs to the different states, are they going to choose the state with them most educated population, and bring the tax revenues with them, or come to Utah for the skiing?
Amazed | 10:59 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
After reading the above comments, the most disturbing fact is how uniformed are the people who have made these comments. No wonder the USA is now in 16th place in the world in educational achievement, and Utah is in 49th place in the USA. The USA is losing its place as a super power and if the financial markets are any indicator, will become one of the world followers not a world leader. Please get informed on the issues before it gets to late.
Cuts should be everywhere. | 11:51 a.m. Sept. 26, 2008
I think the Governor and Legislature are quite right in holding public education harmless -- with one exception. The schools and districts should be exempt this go around, but I see no reason why the State Office of Education shouldn't kick in their 3-5% cut. There is little that agency does that would not be missed. Think again, folks, and have at least part of Public Ed contribute its cut along with other state agencies.
johntvalentine | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
MUSIC TO MY EARS !!! Sounds like government of the people,by the people and for the people. Utah ,you have sent a great example for our great nation. My prayer would be that House Minority Whip, David Litvack D-Salt Lake, should spend hard worked tax dollars on the three R's. READING good books,RESPECT for life,property,being neighborly and RESPONSIBILITY for one's actions. My hope would be that my beloved state of Pennsylvania would do the same. a word to the wise is sufficent !!!
Re: Re: Valentine Partisan | 12:19 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
They CANNOT change the language in the state constitution without going to a public vote. Yes, they can borrow, but within certain limits and only as a form of bonds for infrastructure types of things.
Re: cb | 12:28 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Utah hasn't really given much money to education as compared to other states. We have slipped to last place over the last decade and have continued to fall more and more behind. There are some who try to blame the high birth rate in Utah for the problems in public ed funding, but the reality shows that family sizes have slowly decreased in Utah while the excuse of family sizes for sub-par ed funding has increased. In fact, Utah is now over $1,000 behind in per pupil spending as compared to the next to last state, Idaho. Another statistic shows that Utah used to spend about 3/4 of our state budget on education but that figure has now fallen to less than 1/2. It is too bad that education has taken such a bad rap, but I suppose that is the way the legislature wants it since many of our Republican legislators have an agenda to destroy public education. The reality is that spending in other areas of state government have exploded exponentially while education,admittedly getting increased funding over the years, has remained stagnant and even decreased when the dollars given have been adjusted for inflation.
mortgage fraud | 1:15 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
I'm glad that the attorney general mortgage fraud persecutor is being cut out. The state claims to be #1 in mortgage fraud, but look who they send to PRISON! Good men like Richard Culbertson and Val Southwick, both who were strong in the Church and community. They are getting punished for trying to help the small investors. This illusion that mortgage fraud has fueled the collapse in the mortgage industry is bunk. It is greedy investors making poor choices. Mortgage "fraud" isn't a crime, but criminalizing poor investment choices is a crime.
Good Men? | 1:51 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Ask the people who lost their life savings because of men like Culbertson and Southwick if they are good men. I don't think they would answer in the affirmative. It is ridiculous to think that just because someone is "strong" in a church, including "the Church", that they are automatically good people. Wake up and get your head out of the sand. Besides, what does mortgage fraud have to do with cutting the state budget.
Re: mortgage fraud | 2:15 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Mortgage fraud isn't a crime? What?
re:Exempting public | 9:10 a.m. | 6:25 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Educated workforce = more jobs = more revenue for the state.
It's a monetary investment that will provide economic dividends in the future. Why do you think places like CA spend so much on education, including inexpensive junior colleges, and less expensive State Universities. Because they know it will bring jobs to the state.
Now, that being said, I must agree with another previous post.
Utah Department of Education is a Ivory Tower that is insulated from the nuts and bolts of educating kids, they spend zero time in the classroom, do not deal with the "unwashed masses", and all they know comes from textbooks in a college classroom, and unworkable theories that impeded real teaching and education and spends all of it's time putting up roadblocks to getting quality teachers in the classroom.
The Utah DOE could get cut 75% and improve efficiency 200%(not bad math, one person doing the work of three -- spend a day there, you will see what I mean). Just less people getting in the way of educators doing their jobs...
It's a monetary investment that will provide economic dividends in the future. Why do you think places like CA spend so much on education, including inexpensive junior colleges, and less expensive State Universities. Because they know it will bring jobs to the state.
Now, that being said, I must agree with another previous post.
Utah Department of Education is a Ivory Tower that is insulated from the nuts and bolts of educating kids, they spend zero time in the classroom, do not deal with the "unwashed masses", and all they know comes from textbooks in a college classroom, and unworkable theories that impeded real teaching and education and spends all of it's time putting up roadblocks to getting quality teachers in the classroom.
The Utah DOE could get cut 75% and improve efficiency 200%(not bad math, one person doing the work of three -- spend a day there, you will see what I mean). Just less people getting in the way of educators doing their jobs...
Proud Mary | 6:54 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Another article that makes it look like education and teachers are doing so well here in Utah. The per pupil funding is sad at best and the teacher pay is much lower when compared to the rest of the nation. Don't be fooled that education in Utah is getting a break teachers and students suffered in boom times and they are about to suffer even more!!
Let's have teachers donate time | 7:06 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Darn it, teachers should donate their time like those who teach Sunday school and if they do get paid, it shouldn't be anymore than what a burger flipper makes at McDonald's. I hated school and everyone else should hate schools and teachers just like me so I can have some company in my misery. Yes, I'm an adult who is still behaving like a junior kid, in other words, PEOPLE get over your angst teenage years and come to realize that education is important. Why is the USA so far behind other countries? Because many people here don't value education but expect good things to just fall in their laps. When we pay big sums of money for season tickets to sports events to support the multi-million dollar salaries of the athletes and then whine and complain about teacher's salaries, that is an obvious symptom of a nation and a state full of people with misplaced priorities and values.
Ridgerunner | 7:30 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
Here is how I see this issue. Lets say my son took my credit card and spent over the limit with living the "fast life". The bank calls me and tells me I am out of credit on my card. This is exactly what the government has done! What do I do about my son? I would take the card away from my son and curtail his spending. The last thing I would do would be to give my son more money! What is the democrat's (and some Reppublican's) plan? Pay my sons wreckless spending and increase his spending ability! WRONG!!! And by the way, don't believe what Obama and the Dems are telling you about the tax payer earning money when these loans are paid back. You and I will not get a dime! If these loans are paid back,the government will spend this money on more programs, more governement. The only solution that will last is for the government to stop spending!
Re Ridgerunner: | 9:28 p.m. Sept. 26, 2008
You are one of the few responsible parents. A lot of people would be out there running up their credit card bill with their sons or at least setting that example for their kids.
PC Res | 11:12 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Why cut the state budgets? STOP supporting illegals and watch the tax revenues increase. Since the vast majority do not pay their fair share of taxes.
Stop giving state aid to illegals, no more food stamps, no more housing subsidies, no more free education (which includes free breakfast, free lunch, free bus rides, etc)...and free medical care.
Stop giving in-state tuition, etc. Stop providing second language materials, NO MORE Subsidies to people that cause wages to drop and send millions of our dollars to Mexico (this really helps our economy, like send petro dollars to the middle east).
I would imagine this would easily cover whatever shortfalls there are and then some.
Stop giving state aid to illegals, no more food stamps, no more housing subsidies, no more free education (which includes free breakfast, free lunch, free bus rides, etc)...and free medical care.
Stop giving in-state tuition, etc. Stop providing second language materials, NO MORE Subsidies to people that cause wages to drop and send millions of our dollars to Mexico (this really helps our economy, like send petro dollars to the middle east).
I would imagine this would easily cover whatever shortfalls there are and then some.
Ed Meyer | 9:14 a.m. Sept. 30, 2008
I worked for the State of Utah for 25 years until my retirement. If I recall correctly, Governor Bangerter asked agencies to absorb a 10% budget reduction and were able to do so without a major reduction in services. Governor Huntsman and the Legislature did a good job during the special session. The one exception would be in the area of economic development. Elected officials typically cut economic development funds during weak economic times. This is exactly the wrong approach. These are the times you most need to invest in the engine that grows your economy. Keep in mind that all those school children and all of those social programs. depend on a strong tax base. Investing in an effort to make that tax base grow is simply good policy
Anonymous | 7:37 a.m. Oct. 1, 2008
Hold up! The legislators are getting a $120 per diem?! That's horrible! They are already getting free meals everyday from lobbyists. This is a shocking waste of money.
Astounded | 10:10 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
We get what we pay for. If we chose to spend our time and money supporting symbolic morals bills or a full-time legislature instead of focusing on social and economic needs of our citizens, we'll wither and fade. If we pare social service offerings to nothing, we will get nothing except crime, low test scores and hopelessness.
PC Res | 11:12 p.m. Sept. 29, 20 | 6:34 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Your my HERO!!!
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