Reader comments: Gospel is a plan of freedom
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who is the wise man? | 12:27 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
None other than Gordon B. Hinckley, as quoted in the Improvement Era from June 1965. I'm surprised that the letter writer didn't attribute the quote to its author, after apparently digging more than 40 years back to find this pearl of wisdom.
Anonymous | 3:29 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
must be a slow news day
dcc | 7:37 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
I respect your choice of life path. Please respect mine.
I choose to treat people as I would like to be treated, respect the laws our country, and be considerate of my neighbors (not mow before noon). I choose not to be a member of your church. It doesn't make me a bad person.
I choose to treat people as I would like to be treated, respect the laws our country, and be considerate of my neighbors (not mow before noon). I choose not to be a member of your church. It doesn't make me a bad person.
Comments continue below
Robert Oh | 8:13 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
That should be offered, but not forced upon others.
Ultra Bob | 8:17 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
This quote reminds me of another quote from a mormon leader. I cannot remember the exact words but the quote went somthing like this "People who are free to do wrong things are not really free".
Sorry to disagree but I have come to believe that the purpose of religion is to control the minds of men and women and is directy opposit to freedom. In some cases the religious control over the individual is so strong that the individual will be willing to give up his life for the religion.
Sorry to disagree but I have come to believe that the purpose of religion is to control the minds of men and women and is directy opposit to freedom. In some cases the religious control over the individual is so strong that the individual will be willing to give up his life for the religion.
Anonymous | 9:02 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
In spite of having said that, it is also effectively used to divide and repress. Platitudes are just feel good emotions to mask reality.
Anonymous | 9:21 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Your God must be pretty loving to make Gay people and then watch them suffer their whole lives alone, without companionship and love because they are living in the freedom of the gospel.
jer | 9:33 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
No one man can judge another mans spiritual belief and going to a building weekly does not prove it either. After man years of witnessing other men indoctrinating people and using religion to do so I have decided I will keep my beliefs in the higher within my heart and all many of us ask is that you respect our ways of believing. An organized religion does not make you an automatic believer or person of principal -- I just look at my leaders here in Utah and realize how much I don't want to belong to their same organization (religion). Religion is personal and should not be controlled by an organization that makes big money of the people. People should not live in fear or with guilt on how they believe and many a war is come about based on religious beliefs
Freedom? Hardly | 10:00 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Joining any conservative church is not freedom. Lets be honest, lets be accurate with the usage of words.
Yes in religion there is no jailer there to force you to do this or that, but there is guilt, mental imprisonment. People in conservative religions are made to feel guilty for doing or not doing a whole laundry list of things, in exchange for having a better afterlife.
Call it a fair exchange if you want, but do not call it freedom, it is imprisonment, voluntarily entered into but mental imprisonment nonetheless.
Yes in religion there is no jailer there to force you to do this or that, but there is guilt, mental imprisonment. People in conservative religions are made to feel guilty for doing or not doing a whole laundry list of things, in exchange for having a better afterlife.
Call it a fair exchange if you want, but do not call it freedom, it is imprisonment, voluntarily entered into but mental imprisonment nonetheless.
Be accurate in word definition | 10:16 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Is Jail freedom too?
That religion provides freedom couldn't be farther from the truth. What most religions provide is voluntary imprisonment in exchange for going to heaven.
Think about it, moslems women must curtail educational opportunities and wear coveralls all their life, Jehovas witness must be willing to let themselves or family members die rather than get a blood transfusion, you must attend church every week or god will froun on you. Married couples can't use birth control.
Religion takes very natural very normal things and declares them offenses to God, if one either does or doesn't do them. Who in their right mind would declare mental imprisonment freedom?
In exchange for giving up these freedoms, members of these religions are promiced a better afterlife. If a person violates any of these they are made to feel guilty or fearful for their salvation.
This is not freedom, this is imprisonment, mental imprisonment but powerful nonetheless. So powerful that if one is going to get out from this bondage, a deprogrammer is often necessary.
That religion provides freedom couldn't be farther from the truth. What most religions provide is voluntary imprisonment in exchange for going to heaven.
Think about it, moslems women must curtail educational opportunities and wear coveralls all their life, Jehovas witness must be willing to let themselves or family members die rather than get a blood transfusion, you must attend church every week or god will froun on you. Married couples can't use birth control.
Religion takes very natural very normal things and declares them offenses to God, if one either does or doesn't do them. Who in their right mind would declare mental imprisonment freedom?
In exchange for giving up these freedoms, members of these religions are promiced a better afterlife. If a person violates any of these they are made to feel guilty or fearful for their salvation.
This is not freedom, this is imprisonment, mental imprisonment but powerful nonetheless. So powerful that if one is going to get out from this bondage, a deprogrammer is often necessary.
A Poem | 10:27 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
up is down
right is wrong
black is white
day is night
bs is still bs
right is wrong
black is white
day is night
bs is still bs
Joe Moe | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Often people intentionally omit the source because they fear that the source will distract listeners from the message itself. If, for example, the Pope had said this, and it had been attributed to him explicitly, are there not many in the audience that would ignore it or downplay it?
The same happens too often in politics. If Obama had a good idea, many Republicans would ignore it solely because it came from him. The same vice versa, of course. (Look at a how slow Democrats have been to accept the success of the surge period in Iraq...just like McCain predicted. Ditto his warnings years ago about Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and the Demo's CRA initiative, but does McCain get any credit? Etc.)
While sometimes the source is a valid criteria for evaluation, as a rule the idea should stand on its own merits.
The same happens too often in politics. If Obama had a good idea, many Republicans would ignore it solely because it came from him. The same vice versa, of course. (Look at a how slow Democrats have been to accept the success of the surge period in Iraq...just like McCain predicted. Ditto his warnings years ago about Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and the Demo's CRA initiative, but does McCain get any credit? Etc.)
While sometimes the source is a valid criteria for evaluation, as a rule the idea should stand on its own merits.
Maybe in the next life | 10:50 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Maybe in the next life, but in this life it weights one down with a whole bunch of do's and don't. that if one doesn't do or don't, they are made to feel mighty guilty and fearful they won't go to heaven.
The emperor does have clothes | 11:27 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Is something is really freedom, it doesn't need saying that it is, it will be obvious, the facts, the lifestyle will speak for themselves.
The fact that someone felt the need to say this is evidence that what he said was not obvious on its own, that the facts were not speaking for themself, at least not in the way that he wanted them to speak.
The fact that someone felt the need to say this is evidence that what he said was not obvious on its own, that the facts were not speaking for themself, at least not in the way that he wanted them to speak.
Bert | 11:46 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Yes you are free to do exactly what religious leaders tell you to do. Nothing else.
Gus Talwynd | 12:32 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
What do you say to those people who are not members of your choir? Have you any pearls of wisdom that these people can relate to?
Might you be more specific in what "gospel" you refer? Assume you are out among the people very different from yourself, how do you convey your message without coming across a religious fanatic?
Within your own group, this comment has validity. But I refer to those outside you group, who may not agree with your beliefs.
Might you be more specific in what "gospel" you refer? Assume you are out among the people very different from yourself, how do you convey your message without coming across a religious fanatic?
Within your own group, this comment has validity. But I refer to those outside you group, who may not agree with your beliefs.
Joe Glenn | 1:09 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
This is an opinion peace? Very shady journalism.
I love me some mormon speak in the afternoon; it just amuses me to no end.
I love me some mormon speak in the afternoon; it just amuses me to no end.
Mind control = bondage | 1:27 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
It is a technique of mind control to state the untrue and obviously untrue, as true, either many times or by a respected authority.
This accomplishes two things.
1 It divorces the person of reason, (they learn to set reason aside and replace it with trust).
2 It gets the person to believe (in time) what it is that is being said, you want them to believe.
This would be one stitch of mind control. with enough stitches, a person becomes truely bound.
A bound person is not a free person, but is in bondage.
This accomplishes two things.
1 It divorces the person of reason, (they learn to set reason aside and replace it with trust).
2 It gets the person to believe (in time) what it is that is being said, you want them to believe.
This would be one stitch of mind control. with enough stitches, a person becomes truely bound.
A bound person is not a free person, but is in bondage.
Anonymous | 1:53 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Whatever floats yer boat.
Just don't try to force your beliefs on me - you'll have a fight on your hands.
And believe me, I'll be the one throwing the last punch.
Just don't try to force your beliefs on me - you'll have a fight on your hands.
And believe me, I'll be the one throwing the last punch.
Mike Richards | 3:55 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Strange how so many people don't have a clue about the concept of "freedom". Too many think that it means that they can make a choice to do whatever they want, whenever they want for whatever reasons they want, without suffering the consequences of making that choice. That is not the concept of "freedom".
Using freedom correctly means that you accept the responsibility for the consequences of every choice that you make. True freedom allows you to make a choice knowing that future choices will not be compromised by having made a choice.
A person who chooses not to smoke will not have future
choices to a healthy body compromised by an addition to tobacco. A person who chooses to always obey the traffic laws will not have future driving privileges restricted by his failure to obey those laws.
Everyone who thinks that making a choice without acknowledging the consequences of that choice as "freedom" is still a child and needs to grow up.
True religion teaches us to make wise choices, both for ourselves and for the benefit of all humanity. Religion places no restrictions on us. Making poor decisions does place restrictions on future choices.
Using freedom correctly means that you accept the responsibility for the consequences of every choice that you make. True freedom allows you to make a choice knowing that future choices will not be compromised by having made a choice.
A person who chooses not to smoke will not have future
choices to a healthy body compromised by an addition to tobacco. A person who chooses to always obey the traffic laws will not have future driving privileges restricted by his failure to obey those laws.
Everyone who thinks that making a choice without acknowledging the consequences of that choice as "freedom" is still a child and needs to grow up.
True religion teaches us to make wise choices, both for ourselves and for the benefit of all humanity. Religion places no restrictions on us. Making poor decisions does place restrictions on future choices.
I Agree | 4:45 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
I agree with the letter writer. My freedom hasn't been taken away just because I choose to follow my religious teachings. I don't go out and get drunk, so I know I will remain free from the consequences that might come if I did, such as killing someone in an accident and going to jail. I didn't go out and get pregnant at a young age and then having the consequences of that action to live with the rest of my life. Following the commandments offers protection and happiness.
Phil O. Sefur | 5:58 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Rush (musical group): As for me, I will choose free will.
Central tenet of Deism: God gave us reason not religion.
Karl Marx: Religion is the opiate of the masses
Koran: There is no compulsion in religion.
Central tenet of Deism: God gave us reason not religion.
Karl Marx: Religion is the opiate of the masses
Koran: There is no compulsion in religion.
Ernest T. Bass | 6:34 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
A more wise man said that a person, group or society should be judged based on how they treat the most vulnerable elements in society.
Ask youself: How do religious people/republicans treat homosexuals? Immigrants? The poor?
How ethical a person is has nothing to do with taking coffee or what they do at night, and everything to do with how they treat their fellow man.
Ask youself: How do religious people/republicans treat homosexuals? Immigrants? The poor?
How ethical a person is has nothing to do with taking coffee or what they do at night, and everything to do with how they treat their fellow man.
Gus Talwynd | 7:45 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Thank you, Mike Richards. You always turn the discussion into a sermon chastizing us for misunderstanding something that is so obvious to us all. Only the crimminally-inclined TRY to escape the results of their behavior. No one I know is as naive as you believe.
Freedom. Who doesn't understand "If you do the crime, you do the time." This is basic. You may assume that people don't want to be responsible for their actions (decisions), but no one who lives today believes that they don't reap what they sow.
Methinks thou are in a disconnect of supreme dimensions.-
Freedom. Who doesn't understand "If you do the crime, you do the time." This is basic. You may assume that people don't want to be responsible for their actions (decisions), but no one who lives today believes that they don't reap what they sow.
Methinks thou are in a disconnect of supreme dimensions.-
Confused | 8:38 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Ernest T Bass,
Your comment truly reflects your ignorance of how my religion treats these issues.
They:
Poor,
Give more to humanity causes than just about anyone else.
They have donated money to the St.Paul Soup kitchen, as well as help people reguardless of membership by helping them in the Bishop store house.
When natural disasters happen, we are the first on the seen with food, water and blankets.
Immigrants,
We encourage them to go and get their papers, we help them by teaching them English, etc.
Gays,
While they want to have the Gay marriage law repelled in California and other states, they still love the people who "Profess" their lifestyle, but like most things in life there are consequences for your choices.
Your comment truly reflects your ignorance of how my religion treats these issues.
They:
Poor,
Give more to humanity causes than just about anyone else.
They have donated money to the St.Paul Soup kitchen, as well as help people reguardless of membership by helping them in the Bishop store house.
When natural disasters happen, we are the first on the seen with food, water and blankets.
Immigrants,
We encourage them to go and get their papers, we help them by teaching them English, etc.
Gays,
While they want to have the Gay marriage law repelled in California and other states, they still love the people who "Profess" their lifestyle, but like most things in life there are consequences for your choices.
Thanks for clarifying: | 11:05 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008
Freedom is being free from bondage. I use to smoke, but since I have stopped, I deal with the side effects of wanting one every once in a while, like the addiction has never ceased. If I had never smoked I would not be struggling with the wants of a cigarette.
Many religious persons have freedoms, they chose to follow God. People who have not followed God, choose to follow someone else in this world.
Many religious persons have freedoms, they chose to follow God. People who have not followed God, choose to follow someone else in this world.
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