SlopJ30, severe: critical or dangerous; "a severe illness" (World
English Dictionary)It's not a lesson on semantics, it's an
example of why athletes shouldn't try and talk about other peoples'
injuries/bumps/bruises when they don't really anything about it. a)
It's unethical b) It can make them look silly.
Riley's hurt. When he plays hurt, the team suffers. Insisting on playing
when he's only 60% is not leadership, but selfishness. He's only
hurting the team. The coaching staff is basically saying that a 50% Nelson is
way better than a 100% Lark.
Cougars need a new Offensive Line Coach and a real Offensive Coordinator. Time
for Ty Detmer to emerge. Get us back to a real quarterback that can throw the
ball and not serve double-duty as a running back. Hill can fill
that void if used properly. Come bail us out Ty. We need you now.
Ya know, it is wonderful that Riley is so tuff he will go back out with a rib
injury...but he should keep in mind his rib might hurt, but the entire team,
school, fans and Cougar nation are the ones who are really getting hurt...this
program is on the skids and I am afraid it will not recover...
Thank you for the lesson in semantics, StGtoSLC. I had no idea there was a
technical medical definition for the word "severe."
Wow. Unbelievable. Rib injury and still playing. Is Riley the Head Coach and
makes the decision when he plays? I've never seen such an obvious
situation of coaching ineptitude. And allowing Nelson to play with such an
injury? One more hit...Can you say pierced lung? lawsuit? wow. Slow start, not ready to play, not caring about the game, overlooking
SJS....coaching fail. Epic fail. I read the newspaper reports because I live in
Utah County and am surrounded by alumni, people who work there, people with kids
there, etc. but it has gotten too painful to watch. I do feel bad for the fine
young men on the team.
"Cody played with a separated shoulder, a severe injury"Riley, stick with football for now instead of playing orthapaedist.1) It is either the head coach's or the injured player's right to
make a statement on an injury.2) A "separated shoulder," as
an AC sprain is commonly called, is not a "severe injury." It can be
very painful, especially raising the arms over the head, but is easily managed
with small chance of complication. The only position this injury typically
really adversely affects is QB, because the pain can alter the throwing motion.
Dozens of notable players of the years have played, and played well, with this
injury, but it is painful and requires toughness, but is not "severe."
*sigh*....if only excuses were points. We'd be undefeated and have a
Heisman candidate at QB.
After James Lark came back from his mission he had an opportunity to go to
UCLA,Arizona and Utah but he chose BYU because of his family and a promise made
to him by the BYU coaching staff that he would get a chance to be the starter.
After doing more that what he asked to do and tearing it up in spring practices
he has been passed over for Nelson,Heaps and Hill even after being assured over
and over that he would get a chance. Now we have seen what the other OB's
have done and they will play an injured Nelson over him.Now I want this to be
posted so I won't say what I think of the BYU coaching staff but a thinking
person can see what kind of coaches and people they are, enough said.
You know Riley says he's a team player but I don't see it. Never once
thought about coming out of the game, I can see that if you have no one else and
if you can make the plays, but once again he was NOT able to make the plays,
once he saw that he should have said something if he was really a team player.
Especially after costing us 3 games early on in the season, it's like he
could care less whether they win or not, as long as he gets his. I'll be so
excited for this team when this season is over, I'm sure he's a great
guy but it's amazing how selfish he is being right now. He's an ok qb
when he's healthy but a mistake prone lousy one when he's hurt!
I'm very disappointed in Bronco too for allowing this too happen. I'm
sure he could see he wasn't himself. The fact that they were in the blue
zone that many times and came away empty, hurt or not he should've yanked
James Lark must be horrible. So horrible they keep him on the team....but
don't play him.Doman....meh
People that say were were one step away, we almost had it, we're better
than our record are in total denial. BYU has earned their record. They are not
better than they're record. They're players and coaches are performing
to their potential. Why would an elite level recruit risk a
promising future by going to BYU when they see so many get run out of town
because it's impossible to live up to the unrealistic expectations of the
fans and coaching staff (Jake Heaps)or they get caught violating the honor code.
BYU gets the quality of recruits that they want. It's unfair to place such
unrealistic expectations on them. Especially when you don't have an elite
level coaching staff.
A lot of Riley and Doman bashing is well deserved. That being said, it took the
defense 30 min to figure out how to stop a team on 3rd down. Plenty of blame to
go around on both sides of the ball. Lastly, SJSU is not as bad as they
typically are. They are allowed to have a winning season in 1 out of 10
years...I guess this was their year so good job to them.
It's been a frustrating year for all Cougar fans. The one receiver Riley
has been able to find consistently is Cody. Does his separated shoulder mean
he's out for the rest of the season? If so, and if Bronco stays with
Nelson, the future looks worse. I admire Nelson's grit, but he
lacks skills, a feel for pressure, and too often good judgement. In a
word-change. It's time to let Lark sing!
Is James Lark really that bad? I would think he would be a better choice than
someone with a serious injury. At least give him a shot at it.
Note to Bronco: QB is a SKILL position. It is the ultimate skill position. It
is great to have some gritty overachievers on any football team, guys that give
their all and aren't afraid to mix it up. The whole team will love those
guys. And there are many positions where guys like that can excel. But QB, particularly at a school with a tradition and brand like BYU, is
primarily for guys that use their heads to think, not as a battering ram. It is
for guys with strong arms, as much as strong wills, for guys that can throw a
ball accurately on a consistent basis. You and Holmoe say that you
still expect the QB you sent packing to play in the NFL someday, but somehow it
is OK to play, even when injured, a QB that in the glory days would have been
lucky to make the scout team to prepare for Air Force. You say BYU
will be different, not like those other schools only interested in money.
Newsflash: ESPN is underwriting your salary. As good as your defenses are, the
BYU brand is suffering, and that doesn't bode well for your future.
....and the problem is, who else is out there that can lead this team???? That
is the big question. I do think that Bronco deserves another season. You gotta
see if he can turn this car around...(please do not say Andy Reid or
Mike Holmgren). Both would get a half dozen or more calls from NFL teams as
soon as they place their resumes on the open market. Who else can we
You might check my earlier post, but this is Riley's call. It's up to
Riley whether he plays or not, just as it was against Utah & Boise State.
Give Riley his diploma and send him on his way...I could hear heaps laughing all
the way from Kansas...what a joke!
Couple comments. One- I can't believe the excuses laid out in this article.
Blaming refs and talking in so much detail about injuries. He doesn't use
injuries as an excuse but if he was really tough as he thinks he is, he'd
opt not to talk about them. Two- James Lark must be the worst recruited QB
in BYU history for him to not play over the worst full year starter in BYU
I'm not sure Niners understands the meaning of the words "rational
discussion." Otherwise, he wouldn't be making stuff up for every post.
First there's random digs at Riley Nelson's and BYU's
sportsmanship, which you don't hear from neutral parties; you only hear it
consistently from people who actively root against BYU. The only people I
read/her talking national championship are kids like you who do it to mock the
delusions of the BYU Straw Man Fan.The BYU Straw Man Fan is that guy
who was seriously touting Riley for Heisman before the season, who thinks John
Beck is one opportunity away from being an All-Pro, and who believes BYU and
Notre Dame are on the same plane in D1 football. You know; he's that guy
who doesn't exist among fans actually paying attention and who have some
baseline understanding of football.I'm not disagreeing with the
Y posters because they're making true (if obvious) points: Riley is
mediocre, the coaching staff is questionable and the 2012 team is mediocre. See
the difference? I fear not.
Hopefully Nelson is injured enough that the coaches will FINALLY keep him out of
the remaining games. Riley Nelson is the primary reason for 4 of BYU's
losses -- replace him!
Doman and Riley have to go. We should be 10-1 right now and would be if not for
poor play calling by Doman and foolish mistakes by Nelson.
Love BYU football, but in all honesty, I'm just ready for this frustrating
season to be over with. If BYU plays like this next year, they'll get
their doors blown off with that schedule.
The loss to the Spartans clearly rests on the shoulders of the defense. You
ask, how could that be? Well it's real simple, the defense should have
scored at least two touchdowns and that would have been sufficient to make up
for a sub par offense.
I listened to 97.5 after Saturday's games and Riley Jensen, Steve Tate et
al were discussing the games. One of them stated he thought Riley Nelson leading
the Cougars to their comeback victory against the Aggies LAST YEAR won Bronco
over and Bronco became committed to Riley regardless of how good or how bad he
played. Riley isn't the only problem the Cougars have, but he is the main
problem, followed closely by Doman.
For those of you calling for a coaches head, you need to see the tweet from
Holme this morning. Nothing on the staff is likely to change.
No words....How many games do we have to lose because Bronco
continues to play an injured QB. I'm sick of losing. Riley is good when
he is healthy but he isn't himself when he is injured. Put in Lark Coach!
@BlueHusky, I would rate you as an F level fan.
Ahhhh, back to the good ole days - when the Sunday morning hangovers of Uta fans
were tied more directly to a BYU loss than to a Utah win!
Clearly, Doman has to go. Bronco probably has a short lease.But
it's a lot easier to pick a poor HC than a good one. I'd give Bronco a
B overall as HC/DC, recruiter. But we have to get a B-level OC, at least.
This tells me A LOT about both the coaches and Nelson, he is thinking about
himself rather than the team...multiple times player were wide open and he could
not get the ball to them...if he is not up to "helping" his team win he
should not be in the game. Lark has spent 4 years working and waiting..he
should be given the chance since Nelson can't do the job
I see one of two things being the case:1) Bronco is just such a
Riley fan that he will play Riley until Riley himself or a doctor tells him that
Riley cannot play.2) Bronco (or whoever) realizes that he has been
wrong about Riley being the right man for the job, but doesn't want to
admit it. So instead he plays Riley Nelson for fear that if Lark ever played,
he would prove to be better than Riley and Bronco would be embarrassed for
having made such a blunder.There might be other possibilities, but
these seem the most likely. Any thoughts?
I am sorry but when you lose to San Jose State you have hit rock bottom. They
are a joke. I dont' care what their record is. Utah State smoked them
just as they should have. All you have to do is look at their uniforms. Enough
said. They don't even look the part. I will be happy when the Riley
Nelson saga ends. He is not a good qb period.
Not only is playing a severely injured quarterback strange from a game and
personnel management standpoint, it's also highly irresponsible to put an
athlete at risk for long-term, lifelong injuries.Yes, Riley wants to
play. He's a competitor. Still, a good coach knows when they must protect
an athlete from him or herself.What's the point? All for San
Jose State? So silly.
@ troll police:I know, Utah hasn't beaten a good team in several
years.And we all know that BYU would have absolutely dominated the PAC12.
Kind of sad that we byu fans hated Norm Chow & Robert Anae. Both fine OCs.
Bottom line is this: BYU has 6 wins over a combined record of 21-44. Two of
those 6 are over teams with winning records (Utah State 9-2 and Ga Tech at 6-5).
BYU has 5 losses against teams with a combined record of 41-13. BYU struggles
mightily against good teams from any conference. With no offense, the only
thing keeping BYU in this season is a very good defense. Would that we had an
AVERAGE offense. Our offense is offensive to Cougar Nation. I put that on
Doman. Love the guy but he's not an OC. Hate to say that, but the numbers
show it. Nelson is the most gutsy, well liked player, perhaps ever.....amongst
the players. But he does not deliver against winners. The proof is in the
Amateur athletes going to college and dating girls. No need to pile on Riley
Nelson. He isn't getting paid. He isn't holding a gun to
people's heads. He's just playing his rear end off and doing what he
can do. If it isn't enough, it's not his fault. Like all of us,
he's just doing what he can do.Gotta look to the coaches. They
are the paid professionals.
@slopSorry, but saying its the refs fault for overthrowing a
receiver by 10 yards is not giving the other team full credibility for beating
us...It may not be unsportsmanlike but it is not very classy either.
Sorry BYU fans I forgot there is no such thing as a rational discussion with
some of you. By the way many realistic BYU fans are saying the same thing as me
in different words, why not disagree with them? Anyways ignore me, go get
excited about your national championship run next year with the amazing depth
and amazing athletes on that BYU squad. I hope it works out for you:)
Niners has a selective reading comprehension disability. I'm pretty sure
that Nelson did give SJSU for making the plays necessary to win. It's there
in plain English. Stating that you have a rib injury when you actually DO have a
rib injury is unsportsmanlike . . how, exactly? Complimenting a receiver for
continuing to play hard and play well with an injury is unsportsmanlike . . how,
exactly? And if stating that you "started slow" when you did
start slow, or stating that you didn't play your best after a loss makes
BYU . . exactly like every other team. I still fail to see how that's got
jack to do with sportsmanship. If a team is completely outclassed, that would
sound silly. If you lose by one or two scores, of course you're going to
look at mistakes made and tell yourself you can do better.But
nevermind; I forgot that we aren't applying logic to our analysis;
we're just pulling random lazy anti-BYU myths out of the air after a loss.
Paging Tom Holmoe: please fix our program. Thanks!
ninersStronger schedule means NOTHING if you don't win.It's hilarious that U haven't beaten a decent PAC 12 team in
two years, yet you're whining about another team beating up on weaker
opponents.What happened to the program that was billing themselves
as national championship contender USC's main PAC 12 south challenger just
a few months ago?Beat somebody, then you can whine about other teams
not beating anybody.btw, as it turns out, BYU did beat a Top 25 team
this year. Who did U beat, a 6-5 team that handed U the game?
I didn't get to see all the game, but from what I did see in the second
half I kept thinking that if BYU wins it will be despite Riley Nelson, not
because of him.Seriously, coaches! Is James Lark really SO BAD that
an injured Riley Nelson that makes bad throws, interceptions, and fumbles is
STILL better than him? Give him a chance! He can't do any worse than
Nelson has been.I wanted Riley to succeed this season. I did want
Heaps over Nelson and people thought I was crazy, but when Heaps transferred and
Nelson became the starter, I wanted Nelson to prove me wrong and be an awesome
QB. However, we now see that Riley is not a good QB. Period. I love his grit
and his athleticism. I really do. But he is NOT good at throwing the ball,
which is vital for BYU's offense. Put him in at another position. Just
not QB.I'm not a football expert, but I honestly don't
think that my evaluation is that far-fetched. After all, how many times did we
have an opportunity to win that Nelson failed to deliver?
This game was rather symbolic of the whole season. Poor blocking by the
offensive line; loose ball security, a few poor decisions, and gritty play by
Nelson; unimaginative play calling by Doman on two crucial 3rd and 1 and 4th and
1 plays; defensive lapses in the first half that put them in a hole; a brilliant
special teams play on the onside kick; and, of course, coming up short. This has
indeed been a season of might have beens. The only game they should have lost
was the Oregon State affair.I think two things will stay with me
from this season: losing again to a mediocre Utah squad and wondering how good
James Lark is. The one positive for next year is that we won't have to
watch the heart-stopping adventures and misadventures of Riley Nelson. But at
least he was instrumental in getting Jake Heaps to transfer.
They just don't learn.. after losing games earlier in the season because
of playing Riley while injured, they continue to let him play hurt only to lose
again. I have fully supported Bronco as the head coach but I'm
beginning to think the entire coaching staff is incapible of making even the
easy decisions like this one. Take Riley out and put Lark in.. it's as
simple as that and could have resulted in a win rather than an ugly loss.I can't wait for Riley to graduate and leave the team.
While America may be able to avert its "fiscal cliff" BYU will not avert
the "Bronco Doman Cliff" Imminent and Inevitable. All because of
favortism over talent and winning games. I am hopeful from Holmoe's last
interview when he hinted at some major(?) changes coming next year. Let's
start from the top! I have stopped watching/going to BYU games since Nelson came
back as starter. At this point, a HS or Little League play caller has a better
chance of winning games for BYU - oh, and also for $50 or for free! Fans,
please let's "rise and shout" the ineptness in BYU coaching!
@bslackWhat exaggeration? Playing "Idaho state"8 times in 2
years. Hmm Idaho state twice, Idaho, nmsu twice, weber state, Hawaii, 2011
version of sjsu and the almighty 2011 ole miss. That's 9 teams in the last
2 years that is a guaranteed win for any mediocre team. I'll ask again,
May Riley Nelson never throw another pass at BYU.
"I threw it over JD (Falslev) because everyone thought the play was
dead."What the heck? that's a great excuse for throwing
the ball over someones's head. Did he think the play was dead on those
other 20 passes he threw over receiver's heads?Do a google
search on this article: "BYU Football 2012, The Movie: Great supporting cast
spoiled by a drunk Russell Brand". It should have been on Cougarfan.com but
is probably too negative!
There is no question that the offense is terrible. I was considering attending
the Poinsettia bowl. But I really don't want to watch, in person, the
nation's worst offense sputter against a MWC number 2. I don't know
who is to blame. But, is is obvious that the offense is just not cutting it.
Something needs to change. It is also clear to me that a option style offense
leads to quarterback injuries which we cannot afford. If the quarterback pulls
it down and runs occasionally, OK. But consistently putting your quarterback in
the line of fire has proven to be a losing strategy. Forget the option.
Let's return to the BYU offenses of old. The ones that put up 30+ points
per game. If we had a good or even OK offense this year, we would be playing for
the national championship. If the present coaches/player(s) cannot execute that
offense then let's find someone who can.
@troll policeUtah has no "excuse" they do not have enough
depth to compete a full season in a strong conference. The same problem TCU,
west Virginia and Utah have all experienced in moving to a better conference.
Trust me buddy, next year it will happen to BYU. They are obviously not going to
be an exception, they have 2 injured QBs while playing a relatively weak
schedule. That's not even considering bronco is nearly winless when playing
teams above .500. Not trying to troll just trying to get a unrealistic fan base
to look at things realistically.
AND NOW WE SEE what is really a problem. The Coaches and Riley Nelson DO NOT
KNOW the rules! The play is alive until the official whistles it
dead....period.Nelson should have hit Falslev with the pass, not
thrown it away over his head, and BYU would have scored, forcing SJSU to accept
the penalty. With the play being an incomplete pass on 4th down, all SJSU had
to do was decline the penalty and they get the ball. What is SO HARD to
understand about that? Haven't these guys been playing football since they
were old enough to hold one? Why throw away the ball, Mr. Nelson??????With respect to the rib injury, all Nelson had to do to avoid it was to
PROTECT the ball and not fumble it.Fundamentals, like knowing the
rules and failing to fumble, make a big difference.Once again, we
snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, which is becoming too common of late.
Niners, nice exageration. San Jose is a pretty good football team. BYU should
still be expected to beat them, but their two losses are to Stanford and Utah
State, two good teams. Bronco and Doman are train wrecks when it
comes to making difficult decisions concerning their QB. Riley certainly has
more heart than Heaps, but Riley has made more mistakes costing BYU games than
Heaps did and yet Heaps was pulled twice. I also have a hard time believing
that Riley over threw Falsev on purpose because of the whistle. This looked
like Riley's normal throw.
eastcoastcoug:Reynolds isn't the O-line coach, he's the
tightends coach. And, remarkably, the tightends haven't been an issue this
year. Reynolds was the RB coach before that, but that was taken over by Dupaix,
so he switched over to TE. Mark Weber is the O-Line coach, and the oline has
consistently underwhelmed since he's been in charge. Grimes was a decent
O-line coach during Bronco's first two years has HC, but left to go to
Colorado with Dan Hawkins. Don't know what Grimes is doing now, but maybe
he could come back?
So. Much. Losing. Would be nice to see a new head coach and a rotation of the
deep QB talent from the bench. BYU fans, as loyal as we are, want to see more
wins and fewer excuses.
EastCoastCoug,One problem with your comment... Reynolds coaches the
Tight Ends, not the O-line, that job goes to Webber....Sorry for
ruining your rant on Reynolds.....
"I stood up and when I elongate the torso, it pops back in," he saidNo matter, you gotta love Nelson and his determination.
Trying to figure out why so many Ute fans are commenting on the BYU board, at
least BYU has a winning record. Have fun little brothers as cellar dwellers in
the Pac 10.2.
clearly, it's time for a new offensive coordinator.
Other than the opponents, the comments here sound remarkably like those of Ute
fans. It's been a tough season for all of us... well, not for the Aggies.
This is so insane. Doman's HS Offense has ended Hill's year and now
has injured Nelson twice. And yet he either doesn't know about these
injuries or doesn't have the guts to make the substitution. Either
explanation is equally troubling. Furthermore, beyond the injury debacle, is
the playcalling. On BYUs last offensive play of the game, they have a,
"slowly developing" play called when they had to know that SJSU was
coming with a blitz. What kind of play call and/or play design is that where
there is not a release, "hot" receiver available?While I was
watching this game I couldn't help but think that this is the game that
seals it for Doman. Let him coach out against NMS and maybe even the bowl game
and then he needs to either be re-assigned in some sort of recruiting role or
just given a handshake and shown the door. It's clear that he is a great
guy, blah, blah, blah, but he is just not able to do this job.
ninersWhat's Utah's excuse for not even being able to
qualify for a bowl playing "Northern Colorado" twice a season?The Utes still haven't beaten a single PAC 12 team with a winning
I wonder what Riley thinks causes the problems he mentioned?
Still waiting for "Caption Chaos" (AKA R. Nelson, thanks to B. Poppinga)
to save the day! No one can or has the guts to stop his madness. His madness not
only destroys himself but also his allies. When will it end?
Riley has never been the right person to lead BYU. Sure, he makes an exciting
play - usually running all over the field - once in a while, but he has never
been a quarterback. But, I don't blame Riley. I blame the weak
Offensive Coordinator who won't stand up and say to Bronco, "Riley
isn't cutting it. Give me someone else!" I also blame Bronco. He is
great a defense, but just doesn't have the talent or vision to see what has
to happen on offense.
We've all been tough on Doman and Bronco. What about Reynolds who has
coached the offensive line for 30 years there and can't get his guys to
open a decent hole for our runners or give pass protection to the QB's? The
game is won in the trenches.
Are there other colege teams in the country that play injured players so
consistently? Would the coaches pull a player with a concussion? No, shake it
off and just go back in!
I understand that playing "Idaho state" 8 times the last two years
hasn't caused too many injuries for byu, but if that is the excuse already
what's it going to be next year when 5 to 10 of your starters are down by
the end of the season like teams in the SEC, PAC, big 10 and 12? I can't
wait to hear it next year after BYu plays a real schedule, without 5 bye weeks
per season which gives their starters time to rest/ less injuries.
The fatal decision in a dismal season for BYU was choosing Riley instead of Lark
as BYU's starting QB.That decision forced the second fatal
decision, to install an option offense instead of a passing offense.I don't blame Riley, I blame Bronco for his misplaced loyalty to one
player, over his obligation to the rest of the team. And I blame Doman for his
poor choice of quarterbacks and his unimaginative offense that is little more
than the offense he learned at Skyline HS.
Anyone else tired of the same old comments week after week of woulda, coulda,
shoulda. Also if someone is hurt do you keep playing them?
Another indictment of Brandon Doman? Is there any school in the nation who has
chased away two # 1 rated QB's because of lack of a offensive coordinators?
BYU is rubbing off on Riley finally. His first two seasons he never had excuses
after losses, which was very abnormal for a BYU QB. Now its...The refs made me
over throw it, I'm injured, my receivers are injured, we just started slow.
All these excuses trying to imply "BYU is better, we just didn't play
our best". I knew Riley couldn't finish at byu with a good sportsman
attitude, it's just not possible.
Why are the coaches so stubborn? The only thing I can figure out is Riley is
blackmailing them or they don't want James Lark to look good so they look
bad. James should have played long ago! No wonder the team is flat when they
Is there anymore to say in this comment section? Why, continue to play with ribs
(going in and out???) and just maybe Lark would have delivered for the win? Now
Cody Hoffman got a shoulder injury, he will be better off to recover and come
back 2013. So is Riley going to play at NM State? "Yep", Riley will tell
Bronco and he will let him play?