Mr. Monson, tear down this wall.
My opinion on the Zion Curtain may be different than many however it comes from
life experience that many longer term LDS members or others may not have. There
is a culture of alcohol, I define it as acceptance of a substance that ruins
lives, a culture that makes it ok to consume a beverage that is in the end
destructive. You might ask how I have come to these conclusions and I will
answer by explaining that I owned a tavern in Montana for Ten years and saw the
results of the acceptance of this culture. Im supportive of the stand that has
been taken, its a subtle but effective way to express the right of a state to
hold a line. My compliments to the Senators who took a stand!
Count me as another LDS who thinks it is a stupid law. Repeal it ASAP>
It never ceases to amaze me how many message bills our legislature can create to
tell the government to get out of our business, but when it comes to alcohol
they come groveling back to the throne of government begging it to hold our
hands so we are not tempted to partake.
Oops! Should be: Again, show us the data, Valentine!
"Valentine says a "wetter" environment where drinking is more
socially acceptable or visible gives rise to more youth drinking on or off
premises."Where's the data to prove this, Valentine? Bet
you don't have any! Growing up in rural, Mormon Utah, the only
places that had beer were convenience stores, and the only places that had
liquor were the State-run liquor stores. As kids, we never saw the insides of
the State-run facilities, and never thought much about the beer in the coolers,
and we never saw drinks being served in restaurants. However, between 16 and 20
years old, most of us ended up drinking plenty of alcohol.Again,
show us the date, Valentine!
It would be helpful and refreshing if the proponents could provide one shred of
evidence related to the walls. One iota of evidence from a credible and unbiased
source. This does not exist therefore the proponents are passing laws just to
annoy and demean. This tells everything about the character of those in the
I'm LDS and the "Zion curtain" is a stupid law.
The nanny state in full bloom. Were are forefathers able to get a pint at the
pub in Philly when discussing the Constitution?
@Brave Sir RobinLast time I was in San Diego I saw a play in Balboa Park:
At intermission, all the wine drinkers were forced to stand in an area roped off
with kite string. I thought: If this were Utah, people would be bashing Mormons
for silly liquor policies. You prove my point. While I respect you and DC for
questioning your religion (questioning is part of internalizing it as an adult)
That respect is negated by the fact that you dont question popular culture even
harder: Particularly when your church is on the certifiably correct side of a
public health debate.I am not LDS. I like the fact that Utah
restaurants do not look like bars. I have no religous aversion to alcohol but I
understand why government would discourage both alcohol and tobacco. I
occasionally drink soda: but I understand why San Francisco restricts it in
schools. I eat french fries, but I understand why New York bans trans-fat.I dont understand how DucatiCR is a victim, when he doesnt see his steak
grilled either.I dont understand how criticizing fellow Mormons has any
relevance to public health or makes anyone open-minded
I don't get it. I'm LDS and I don't drink, but I don't get
why Utah has a law preventing people from being able to see drinks being made.
I've attended literally hundreds of receptions and other functions where
drinks are made and poured right in front of my eyes and not once have I ever
thought "wow - that looks so good, I want one too." Just doesn't
make any sense to me, but it sure continues to make Utah look backward and
@Counter Intelligence:Yes, I enjoy being able to see my drinks being
made, that way i know what i am paying for when i order an expensive liquor
isn't just bottom shelf junk but what i am being charged and taxed for. It
also makes me feel better to see my drinks being made, so i know i am not (or my
wife is not) getting something "extra" put into our drinks. If a kid sees alcohol and is driven to drink, you are a bad parent who has not
taken the time to explain to them the dangers of underage drinking, and the
affects it has on the developing brain.
It's a stupid law for many reasons. I would say that every time I've
ordered a drink at a restaurant, I've never seen it poured. Not because of
some stupid wall, but because I was engaged with who I was dining with.
I've never watched a server like a hawk to see where the drink comes from.
I trust the establishment to do it right and they always have. Kids or those who
don't drink probably couldn't see the drink being prepared either. But
what stops kids or non drinkers from watching me drink my drink from the next
table over? stupid.
The great thing about the free market -- where it exists -- is that it relieves
us all of the need to go on internet message boards and engage in debate about
the psychic benefits of product and service features such as
visible-cocktail-mixing. If enough people enjoy watching their drink being made,
a restaurant will open and serve that need, to the harm of no one (least of all
minors, who enter a place of business at the permission of their parents).Likewise, if there are enough people like Counter Intelligence who
derive some benefit from having drink-mixing hidden, a restaurant will open to
serve them and their families.And this being a free country in which
we buy only the products and services we choose, everybody wins!This
logic is so beautiful, economics textbooks created a word for it: American
I think I finally got it. When it comes to health care, we'll roll the dice
and trust in the free market, but when it comes to the critical issue of
family-friendly restaurants, we can't take the chance.Thank you
Utah Legislature, for protecting the Sizzler from turning into Studio 54.
I'm LDS and I think the Zion curtain is a stupid idea. All my LDS friends
think so too. In fact, I don't know a single person (LDS or otherwise) who
supports the Zion curtain.In reality I think there are about 5
people in all of Utah who support the Zion curtain. Unfortunately, all of them
are in the state senate.
When a politician says, "it's not a hijack", it usually is. The
consolidate bill appears to have the tracks of church lobbysts all over it.
I left out a critcal two words"And next time I go to an outdoor
theater IN CALIFORNIA and see all those wine drinkers huddled in a fenced corner
- by law: I will remind myself how hypocritical Utah critics really are"
"and the rest of us should be able to enjoy Ruth's Chris, Market
Street, or any other quality restaurant."What is stopping you from
doing just that?Do you have to see a drink being made to get one?Will food, not watching your alcohol being poured, being the focus of your
dinner really ruin your meal?I find it fascinating that
"progressive states" will place restrictions on soda, trans-fats,
tobacco or even require warnings on alcohol or restrict access to it - but when
Utah does it - all those progressives suddenly become victims.The
fact is: Alcohol has far greater social and health related costs than tobaccoThere may have been valid reason to drink alcohol years ago when it was
cleaner than the water - but now a social life centered around an intoxicant is
just plain creepy. And it not good public health policyUtah need
not apologize one iota for shuttling alcohol off to the side.And
next time I go to outdoor theater and see all those wine drinkers huddled in a
fenced corner - by law: I will remind myself how hypocritical Utah critics
Do you have to check your concealed non-permitted guns at the door of family
The fact remains that the less ubiquitous and easy to access alcohol the fewer
fatalities are caused in motor vehicle accidents. Now if only we had a device
that automatically shutdown your phone or texting device if you were driving.
Recently my daughter has taken to counting the number of drivers that text/phone
and drive. Generally there are 2 to 4 times more women than men that do it, and
even on short outings she counts around one in ten to fifteen using phones.
So let me get this straight. Our esteemed legislators in their infinite wisdom
have proclaimed that anyone can conceal carry a gun but no one can eat in a
restaurant where one might possible be able to view the mixing and pouring of
alcohol, but the consumption of alcohol is ok. I am gobsmacked.