to carman"1) BYU does not try to control anyone's
behavior"So, the honor code doesn't exist?
The title of the article s/b Surprise?... not Surprise!...
There's "nothing wrong" with moderate drinking? I agree for the
population as a whole, although it's clearly a safer bet to avoid it
altogether if you want to avoid drunkenness, alcoholism, and liver problems.
But, there certainly is something wrong with it if you have covenanted not to do
so. Kudos to the vast majority of BYU students who keep covenants and live by a
As to the health benefits of drinking alcohol, you can get all those benefits by
drinking grape juice. It is the same thing, only no aging of the juice, and thus
no side effects.
I can say from first hand experience of a "#" of years ago that the
people who attend BYU are overall living extremely high standards "compared
to"...my greatest and most heartfelt concern is for sobriety of pornography.
In one article from DN, I read 33% of students in 2007 were experiencing
pornography. I am GREATLY concerned that that is higher today. I worry for our
During college, I shared an apartment with a lifelong friend from my hometown, a
member of a fraternity who ridiculed me often because I would not drink. He told
me that "moderate" drinking was healthy and I was missing out on a lot
of fun. He had been valedictorian of our high school class, graduated from a
respected university with a fine degree, quickly secured a good job and
promising career, married, and looked to be well on his way to a happy life. We
buried him at the age of 50, after he'd spent 30 years in decline, going
through 3 marriages and 3 divorces, a succession of lost jobs, alienation from
most of his friends and a strained relationship with his one daughter. He spent
his last years living unemployed with his parents in our small hometown, passing
his final months in a nursing home in the room next to his 82-year old father.
He succumbed to severe liver failure and other ill effects brought on by over 30
years of "moderate" drinking.
There are much better ways to get the health benefits some claim for alcohol!
Do the research.
We need to worry more about the government that continues to take more and more
of our freedoms away. THAT is the real problem in this country!
Huzzah! Let's lift a 32 ounce Mountain Dew and munch of a half a pan of
chocolate walnut fudge in celebration of our ability to avoid temptation!
It all comes down to what you want. Just like an Olympic athlete who follows a
dietary and training regimen to keep themselves in top form for competition, one
chooses the discipline that leads where they want to go.Discipline
comes from the same root as "Discipleship". For me, when I read the
Bible and the LDS scriptures, I feel a desire to live a life that is following
the Savior and being in a position to lift and serve others, especially my
family. It makes sense given that feeling to not party or binge drink, etc.
There are many that arrive at that same place by following a particular path of
faith and some that get there just listening to their conscience. That inner
voice is the only thing that drives me. I too am "switched off" by those
that sound too strident and controlling. If others live by a
different "covenant", that's their choice.
@Chris B. Come on, you know that ALL organizations have some rules
and you join based on whether you want to live by those rules. The LDS church is
a very conservative culture but there are definite benefits and we tend to enjoy
a great lifestyle in terms of nurturing families, emphasis on education and
lifelong learning, and as confirmed by this article - freedom from addiction and
the downside of alcohol. That said, I agree drinking in moderation
is fine and there are many ways to live that can be healthy and fulfilling. I
have many friends who have a different lifestyle and way of thinking and we get
along great. I'd advise against thinking that others who have a different
path in life are necessarily under "mind control" or something sinister.
It might be just their choice to roll that way.
Lastly, it isn't just a matter of whether drinking in moderation is OK.
Research shows that the developing adolescent brain -- considered by scientists
as the second decade of life -- is more susceptible to long-term damage of
alcohol use affecting most particularly the hippocampus -- which plays an
important role in consolidating information from short-term memory to long-term
memory and spatial navigation -- and the frontal lobes -- generally considered
the seat of judgement, motivation, and planning. Now if the adolescents at our
colleges and universities were only drinking moderately, the concern would be
minimal. Unfortunately, most are binge drinking -- 4 or more consecutive drinks
-- which again research demonstrates is even more damaging. In fact, even short
term use of alcohol on a binge basis shows critical damage to sensitive brain
structures. So, what may happen? These Mormon youth will grow up
to be cognitively sound while their imbibing peers suffer the long-term health
and cognitive effects of their poor choices. Not exactly a laughing matter when
we consider the government's insistence that we now pay for health care for
To Chris B:re: "There is nothing wrong with alcohol in
moderation.I'd say its much more wrong to try and control
adults lives by telling them what to wear, how to cut their hair, facial hair,
and where to go to church than to have a few beers on the weekend."Another post from a guy with a bee in his bonnet about the LDS Church and/or
BYU. Two points: 1) BYU does not try to control anyone's
behavior. Most students choose BYU because they WANT to learn/study in that
unique environment. If you don't want that environment, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Neither BYU or 99.99% of the students there care where others choose to go to
school.2) Alcohol in moderation is possible for some, though many
young people in an environment of social/peer pressure and newly found freedom
when leaving home find moderating consumption to be difficult if not impossible.
And the devastating consequences of alcohol on college campuses around the
country are evident to anyone who is aware. The consequences include alcohol
toxicity related death, sexual and other assaults, lower academic performance,
suicide, addiction, hazings, automobile accidents/deaths, just to name a few.
The alcohol industry gladly reports that modest heart health benefit of its
product. It also completely overlooks the moderate to severe damage alcohol --
even in moderation -- can do to the stomach, intestines, liver, and most
critically the brain. The question I pose of those who "drink in
moderation" is: why would any reasonably intelligent individual imbibe a
WallbangerIn a school with over 30,000 students, there will always
be a few who aren't honorable enough to abide by the Honor Code, but
they're a small minority. Having attended BYU and Utah for several years, I
can tell you from first-hand experience, that by comparison to other schools,
including other Utah schools, the number of BYU students who consume alcohol is
I was in the Army and I agree with Riverton Cougar. Even so, I am also a member
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I've never had
someone walking up to me with any kind of threatening object to enforce any type
of standards taught. I believe the prophet stated "I teach them correct
principles and let them govern themselves." That's been my experience.
From the Mayo Clinic website -- the last sentence is the most crucial: Alcohol
use is a slippery slope. Moderate drinking can offer some health benefits. But
it's easy to drink too heavily, leading to serious health consequences. t
sounds like a mixed message: Drinking alcohol may offer some health benefits,
especially for your heart. On the other hand, alcohol may increase your risk of
health problems and damage your heart.So which is it? When it comes
to drinking alcohol, the key is doing so only in moderation. Certainly, you
don't have to drink any alcohol, and if you currently don't drink,
don't start drinking for the possible health benefits. In some cases,
it's safest to avoid alcohol entirely — the possible benefits
don't outweigh the risks.
I have two adult sons (both married with children) currently attending the
University of Iowa -- noted in the article as biggest party school. They
confirm that "alcohol in moderation" is not what the current crop of U
of I students do. Is there alcohol at BYU. Sure. Kids will be stupid (by this
I mean they will use poor judgement) no matter where there are. But by
comparison to the rest of the country's universities, the flow of alcohol
at BYU is barely a drip. And it is because the students choose to forego this
"right of passage" idiocy.
"I'd say its much more wrong to try and control adults lives by telling
them what to wear, how to cut their hair, facial hair, and where to go to church
than to have a few beers on the weekend."If those adults signed
up for it, then it is their problem. They tell you what to do in the Army. If
you don't like it, then don't sign up for it. But don't mock
people in the Army for signing up for it just because you won't.Anyway, I graduated from BYU and I did not have to change my lifestyle when I
went there. I was already dressing the way they require, shaved everyday, and
went to the church they wanted me to go to.
BYU is a special place. You have to experience it to understand it. Sober
students is just the tip of the iceberg.
Says who?? I know many people who do or have partied, and who also attended BYU.
And they told me all kinds of stories about the parties they went to on or near
campus. And I believe them, because I've heard it many, many times from a
lot of different people. BYU may be quite sober compared to some schools, and
good for them, but it's not as sober as people think.
re: Chris BCan you convince my CEO of that please? I'm a bit
tired of having to comply with the corporate dress and grooming code.
Just keep the milk in moderation. Binge drinking of milk leads to upset
There is nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation.I'd say its
much more wrong to try and control adults lives by telling them what to wear,
how to cut their hair, facial hair, and where to go to church than to have a few
beers on the weekend.
As I've heard more than one person say, Provo is about the only college
town where the bars--to the extent there are any--close early and the ice cream
parlors are open past midnight. (On the other hand, I've always said one
can find anything he/she wants at BYU--one just has to look harder for it than
in most places.)