IndeMak:You're right, if we had the population of Seattle our
air would be just plain toxic. So as we head to the population Seattle has now,
we might want to do something as we face these geographic realities. Of course,
we don't need our population numbers to be like Seattle to be that bad, so
again maybe we might want to get ahead of the curve.
Re: "Bamberger was one of the greatest transportation enterprises of the
west. It was electric, with acceleration even faster than TRAX. All of it was
lost!"And, for good reason. It did not meet the needs of the
real people it pretended to serve. So, it required insane amounts of subsidy to
stay in business.Exactly the same as TRAX and all the other UDOT
collective transportation initiatives.Why do politicians believe
ordinaryfolksseattle, WAIf Utah is doing such a great job of
managing growth, how come the air is unfit to breathe?Utah has had
bad air since cars and fire places were created. The entire Wasatch front is
built in valleys. Pollution is heavier than air so it takes wind to push it out.
Imagine Seattle in a valley. The pollution would be much worse than it is in
I am the only one disturbed by this:"One, by a population-reduction
group known as NumbersUSA Education and Research Foundation..."?Population-reduction Group?
Envision Utah is listed as a regionally based initiative in "Profiles of
Regional Initiatives in the West", appendix 2. Regional initiatives might
be defined as "experiments in regionalism...that encompass more than one
established jurisdiction, such as a county or national forest boundary".
Some plans are "citizen-driven" and some are
"government-driven". From T. David Horton, Legal Counsel for the
National Committee to Restore the Constitution: "The grouping of the states
of the United States into regions for the purpose of exercising governmental
powers ~ multi-state regionalism ~ and the intimidation of the legislature of
each state to divide the state into regions for the purpose of exercising
governmental powers ~ sub-state regionalism ~ constructs a system of government
by appointed bureaucrats that by-passes and undermines the lawful government of
each state by it's elected state and local officeholders.....it is
sedition. The avowed purpose of regional government is to exercise governmental
powers.....it is sometimes represented (as) just
planners.....regionalizers....an advisory plan."
I couldn't tell if there was actually a "model." I must have
Procuradorfiscal hit it on the head. I agree that unknown "others who
have" want to "manage" (read control) other people to their own
self-interest. We are breeding a self-important privilege-for-me class who want
to ration quality of life for and to others.In all of the
discussion, maybe we should consider how local municipalities zone out small lot
development in favor of large house, large lot development to increase tax base
income per unit and lessen services as large lots usually have smaller families
and consume less utilities and services.I do recognize the need for
information to be available to people on various issues that deal with our
changing life styles and options. But really people, who are these
self-appointed committees, councils, boards and such? Maybe we should list
names, occupations and funding sources for openers.I am for
individual home ownership, a family's castle if you will, without all the
nit picking controls that hinder the freedom of the individual to own and do
what he wants to do with his property.
Do these projections encompass the open-borders mindset of the Utah Compact?
This is important because projected growth of Utah would be directly impacted by
a more porous border. Likewise, projections for housing (as well as social
issues, such as crime) would also be directly affected.
Where are some of these editors getting their information from?A few
weeks ago? The legislature and making great strides in improving education. Huh?A few days ago? Congratulating the legislature for
improvements in air quality?Huh?? What was actually done?Now? We are congratulating our state for having foresight to avoid urban
sprawl.Huh??? We are the least regulated state in the nation and it
shows. Ivory jokes are junk and falling apart, people are being ripped off,
traffic and congestion is worse than Southern California, gas prices continually
lead the nation, a public transit system that is worthless, and disgusting air
quality for 8 months of the year.Currently, many towns have grown so
fast that they have run out of water (ex Lehi).Foresight in
planning? We have none
Let's look at Davis County to see if we can avoid similar mistakes in the
future. Say we're still in 1952. What do we see? We see a population
concentrated along the late great Bamberger Electric Railroad. I'm now one
of the few who remember it. Bamberger was one of the greatest transportation
enterprises of the west. It was electric, with acceleration even faster than
TRAX. All of it was lost! What if UDOT had placed Bamberger with its
electrification under maintenance pending the day of its renewal? We
didn't have the necessary foresight then, so lets try to make sure we keep
all of the newly built rail corridors no matter what!Also in the
1950's we didn't have the urban sprawl up the mountainside, like in
North Salt Lake today. Through the years the developer puppet city governments
have allowed this insane growth, on grades so steep that no public transit
vehicle will ever enter (except rack and cog railway lol). At the very least we
need to stop this kind of development which locks out mass transit and destroys
animal habitat. Let's quit making these mistakes.
"Utah’s economy and population are growing — and that’s a
good thing. " Really? Growth has its price. When I was a kid
in the 50's my dad and I hiked and fished the Davis County each bench.
It's hard to imagine now, but the Davis bench in those days was wilderness.
I didn't realize it, but an era was passing away. I'm glad I saw
it.Now Davis County is mostly one sprawling, gas guzzling, nerve
shattering pit. Davis County used to be a great place to live, with an
interesting balance between urban and wilderness. Gone forever.
Well, I don't know where these "experts" are looking but I can tell
you that in South Utah County the amount of farming and grazing land has dropped
SIGNIFICANTLY in the last 20 years and is dropping even more! People may think
that food only comes from the store but, surprisingly, it comes from farms and
ranches and they NEED land and water!!!I suggest that if there is a
vacant building in a town or city, that has to be used BEFORE a new one is
allowed to be built. Similarly for homes. Both of these can be remodeled and
it will save a lot of space. Drive through down town Salt Lake City and see all
the vacant buildings; redo them and sell them.Lastly, water is
crucial. Stop the NSA from using over one million gallons of water daily in
their new facility! That is crazy!I know, the "experts"
will totally disagree and say I don't know what I am talking about and they
are certainly worried about their pocket book being impacted I suspect!
The key to controlling sprawl, since developers want as much sprawl as they can
sell, is low priced rail public transit, as population tends to concentrate
along such corridors.TRAX is working well. Its success has been an
unexpected treat. However, Frontrunner needs to open up a lot more interfaces
along its route. Too many urban concentrations are being left out of the
Frontrunner picture. A good example of this is North Salt Lake.Steps must be taken to make Frontrunner equipment accelerate faster so as to
be able to handle at least double the current number of stops. Does that mean
electrification? Maybe. But I recall the days of the Southern Pacific
"commutes" along the San Francisco peninsula. They used early
generation diesels, but had lightning acceleration! Let's get a fix to
Frontrunner. Time's a wasting.
If Utah is doing such a great job of managing growth, how come the air is unfit
The developers created a mess at Cottonwood Mall and other locations.IF they
still had pre 2008 free money they would be doing the same. All transit needs to
be pollution free in ten years.
Re: ". . . many of Utah’s leading minds have been planning and
preparing for this future through the Envision Utah process."Envision Utah's ideas are far from smart. They amount to nothing more
than callow envy of the crowded, unsustainable, unfulfilling euro-socialist
shared-misery model.Fact is, Utah -- along with the entire
intermountain West, and even large areas in the Midwest, and on the Gulf, East,
and West Coasts -- is nearly empty.There is plenty of room to
expand, and in an era of increasingly decentralized production of nearly
everything from manufactured goods to foodstuffs to energy, Utah is well
positioned to lead the way into a better future for real people.Envision Utah, and those of its ilk, however, are planning a return to forced
medieval population concentrations that can benefit only those of the new
liberal "nobility," intent on keeping us closely penned and heavily
dependent on their largesse, and away from the new "king's forests"
of prime federal lands.
Nothing has been done to "regulate" developers for the last 50 years.If Nothing is changes now -- 50 years from now ALL of the Salt
Lake Valley will look like Beck Street.We need to look at other
countries and recycle.And Real Estate is like garbage...We can
either used it throw it away, or recycled and reused it.